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Help!!???!!$#&^!)(
Question?
I just recently pulled off 5 gallions off cider (green) ,Yet experience major bottling problems. The cider ended up about 12% and was really quite dry ( which detracted from the apple flavor) So I sweetedened afterwards... Bottle bomb city!!!!!!! Should I have pulled it early ??? and stayed happy with th e7% apple flavor comprimise? or should I have simply cut back on my priming sugars and bottleded direct.? I was not looking for a flat strong apple wine..... Currently I am working on a new batch... 7 gallion s of cider to 14 pounds of sugar.... i switched to a chmpaine yeast instead of a wine yeats (yes I know of the wine / champaine dom' p... Irony).. When should I pull it when I am looking for a carbo/alcohol.. Balance. I know I am asking subjective questions, yet would appreciate input...
Grimm
What did you use to sweeten it?
depending on the OG of the cider you used, adding 2 lbs of sugar per gallon of cider is going to get you the high octane product.
i use a cider that has an OG of 1.052-1.054; adding one pound of brown sugar to one gallon of this gives me an OG of 1.102. using a cider yeast, it ferments down to 1.010. that is an ABV of 11.9%.
by using two lbs of sugar per gallon, you are super-charging that must. especially when you use a wine yeast: those suckers are alcohol tolerant and will give you ABVs in the strong wine category.
if you want something less strong, reduce your sugar additions. wine yeast will ferment out all those sugars and you will keep getting dry finished products with high alcohol contents.
if you like the high alcohol and just dont want bottle bombs, only prime it when you bottle it. sweeten it before you pour it. if you add sugar to sweeten the finished cider, and then bottle it, you have overprimed it and you will always get bombs. if you pull it at whatever ABV you are happy with, you can stop fermentation using campden tablets or some other such substitute, but then you will have neutralized the yeast and you won't be able to bottle carbonate.
the only option i see in this situation is to bottle the cider before it has finished fully fermenting ( if the yeast is rated to eat all the sugars you provided it, then bottle around 1.010 or 1.012) and add no priming sugar. the residual sugar will be used by the yeast in each bottle to prime...but you are gambling to see if you waited too long, and therefore needed the priming sugar to carbonate, or if you didn't wait long enough and still get bombs anyways. read the literature to see how alcohol tolerant your yeast is to determine how much sugar it will eat in your must. like i said, this is a gamble.
i am currently running a cider experiment and have been able to acheive the above stated gravities using WYeast Cider Yeast #4766. it will give you the 12% ABV but also leave a great apple nose and flavor. give it a try; wine yeast will always go dry on you.
Krausenator!! Exactly!!
You understand the depths of this delema! This is tricky work... I have no way of knowing the exhaustion point of the yeast so I cannot accurately predict how much sugar is left. The campden tabs will only flatten the cider ,making strong cider, but with no carbonation. I do feel that the idea of adding additional sweetner to the brew after the fact was a clever stroke. But I still am stuck with no carbo and not knowing when to bottle...
Maybe the attempt to produce such "high octane" substainance accompanied with bubbles is obsurd... I with tell you tomarrow what my og and pg. are...maybe we can figure this out togather... I really need to learn to make better brewing log notes..
hail the gods of fermentation!!
Grimm
You could always add a sweetener such as splenda before bottling. You would still be able to add priming sugar and not have bottle bombs, since the splenda is non-fermentable. That would help with the sweet part, but not the apple flavor.
if you can get your hands on the champagne bottles they might be useful because they can hold up to much higher pressure that regular beer bottles... what kind of yeast are you using?>
Lactose is also an unfermentable sugar you can use at bottling time. When you are sure fermentation is done e.g. your airlock stops bubbling and S.G. is very low then you can add your flat cider to a bucket for priming, then add your sweetening sugar to taste. Then you can add the appropriate amount of priming sugar and bottle.
i would suggest you just switch your yeast, grimm. you can get those higher octane beverages no problem with cider yeasts, and they leave you a good apple nose and flavor profile.
i am currently doing an experiment to determine which yeast i like best for cider making, but i can already tell you that the preliminary results from green cider (i.e. not aged yet) are 200% better than my first attempt with champagne yeast.
the champagne bottles work excellently, i use them for my ciders and meads. no need to work about light strike, since no hops. and they are nice and thick and meant to sustain the pressures of over-carbonated champagnes.
So your saying to go with cider yeast?!?!
I opened the rest of my bottles for fear of large booms thundering in the night.. Let me tell you this !! That cider (green or not) was awesome!! It was very strong (quite dangerous really) It was thick in body with a smooth apple flavor, very strong alcohol taste, no after taste and super bubbly..I really liked it !! just can't bottle it...wish I could.. I used cinnomen, nut meg, allspice, ginger, and clove to mull it. I am wondering if I should introduce the mulling spices during the intial cooking phase,. Or would it retard fermentation? Today
I separated off 6 gallions from another ten gallion batch. I added to this (in three separate containers) blueberry puree, rasberry puree, and cranberry puree( not mixed but individually) This should produce some interesting variations while speeding fermentation...(sorry to the traditionlists) To redeem my self... I hate fruit in my beer (smile)
Grimm
Heil the gods of fermentation!!
Damn!! if this turns out good I will have to buy a juicer!!!
So your saying to go with cider yeast?!?!
I opened the rest of my bottles for fear of large booms thundering in the night.. Let me tell you this !! That cider (green or not) was awesome!! It was very strong (quite dangerous really) It was thick in body with a smooth apple flavor, very strong alcohol taste, no after taste and super bubbly..I really liked it !! just can't bottle it...wish I could.. I used cinnomen, nut meg, allspice, ginger, and clove to mull it. I am wondering if I should introduce the mulling spices during the intial cooking phase,. Or would it retard fermentation? Today
I separated off 6 gallions from another ten gallion batch. I added to this (in three separate containers) blueberry puree, rasberry puree, and cranberry puree( not mixed but individually) This should produce some interesting variations while speeding fermentation...(sorry to the traditionlists) To redeem my self... I hate fruit in my beer (smile)
Grimm
Heil the gods of fermentation!!
Damn!! if this turns out good I will have to buy a juicer!!!
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