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Need help building a kegerator...
So I have my chest freezer, and my temp controller. I'm building the collar tomorrow so the kegs fit, with the connectors..What the hell else do I need.?!?! I see a ton of conversion kit that include "everything", except they always come with stuff for one tap. I'll have two taps, using Corny kegs with ball lock connection.
I know I need at least the following :
CO2 tank, regulator that can handle two kegs, air line, beer line, shanks, perlicks and handles....anything else? And where to go?..so many places, all with different prices for everything. I was looking at Beverage factory.com, but their kits either look like not enough, or too much..
Any keggers care to share their secrets?...
unless you plan on serving at two different pressures, you don't need " a regulator that can handle two kegs" I have two set ups. a commercial kegerator that holds one keg and a HUGE chest freeezer I use for temp control and serving 2-3 kegs from picnic taps. I just strung together air line with T fittings and hood up all 3 to serving pressure at once. Works great.
Make sure the shanks you get have a barbed fitting for the tubing/bev line. I have two types; one where the barb is integrated on the end of the shank, and one where the barb is a seperate fitting that screws onto the end of the shank with a rubber gasket. Be sure to get shanks long enough to reach through what ever thickness collar you are building.
Be sure you need a tank!!!! Have you decided where to get gas yet? If you haven't sourced a reliable place for refills, then you'll be in a swap program so you won't need to start with your own tank.
I use a 4 way manifold to supply gas to 4 kegs with one tank/regulator. I was planning to T-off from there if I every needed 6 or more kegs. The manifold is nice because it uses check valves which prevents beer from getting back to teh regulator if you ever attach gas to the bev in post or use a carbonation stone (topic for a different discussion)
You can spend money on fancy bev and gas lines, but all you really need is standard beverage tubing for both. Slighly thicker walled gas line in nice but I haven't come across using such a high pressure that I needed something special. So just be wary of spending extra for something not needed.
Lastly, I guess I would do more research and see if the sum of the parts aren't cheaper bought seperately vs. getting a "kit"
Good luck
I've bought stuff from Tom Hargrave at kegkits.com. He has a great selection and decent prices for everything you need. I ended up buying the hardware as separate pieces instead of going the kit route because I already had half of what I needed to build the kegerator.
Also, since you're in the Boston area, check out Dan Logcher's website. He is an avid homebrewer who has a small keg parts business out of his house in Woburn, I believe. Anyway, he's very knowledgeable on kegging and kegerator projects and will even give free tutorials on kegging if you are new to this side of our hobby. Cheers!
Thanks guys....one regulator it will be, with a split tee, regular bev line for both bev and gas, and the shanks with barbs attached, long enough to fit through a 2x4 collar......okay, I'm going to piece it all together. I'm going to build the collar today and attach it, then once I get everything else, I'll drill the 2 shank holes.\
As for gas, I'l probably go that APA place on Plank St in town......most of the kits I did see allowed me to drop the tank anyway......
Okay, so I've just put together a basket of stuff at that kegkits.com site. They seem to have good prices, and good parts too. This is what I have so far...
(1) 0 - 60 PSI CO2 regulator with Y and 2 - 1/4 barb fittings with ball valve shutoffs
(2) Ball Lock Liquid 1/4 barb
(2) Ball Lock Gas 1/4 barb
Bev and Gas line, 1/4 enough for both kegs...10'
Okay, and the obligatory stupid question. The collar will be made from 2x4 wood...How long does the shank need to be. The smart me says 2", same as the wood..but the pictures I've seen make it look like I would an extra inch for some reason....and also maybe a special wrench to attach them?....
Anything else?.....
Yeah, I would use slightly longer shanks. That way you can use them on something else if you decide to build a different kegerator. Also, I would recommend using the threaded gas and liquid keg connections. You would need to get the Barb stem assembly for the ends of each hose, but it makes it much easier to clean everything and to switch hoses around. It's also a nice to have for the gas lines if you use the threaded check valves. Either way you'll need to get the Oetiker clamps for your hoses. I think that's about it.
I have on old mini fridge from my college days (the kind with the freezer compartment at the top. I do not believe that there will be enough room in the fridge with the freezer set up. Is there any way that I can remove the freezer compartment?
Okay...so I pretty much have everything in the basket, and will place the order in a little bit.
I'm off to go make a starter hor Sunday/Monday...and then start chopping wood for the collar...I'd like to have to the collar and lid put together today so I'll be ready when the other stuff arrives.....
thanks again guys...
Oh and Brewchez..I went to the AGA place on Plank St...the guy said I would need to have a tank to either fill, or swap out. Starting cost is around $100 for the tank, first fill,and something else.....I might check Craigslist first to see if I can a cheaper tank, may even just get a 2.5LB, as I'll only have 2 kegs max....
Hope this isn't too late, but http://www.beveragefactory.com/ has good deals on faucets, and shanks. I got all the stuff from there for my eight tap kegerator.
Also, this is essential reading for anyone building a kegerator:
http://hbd.org/clubs/franklin/public_ht … lance.html
It has invaluable information.
A couple of suggestions. Get 3/16" ID tubing per the balancing draft system article, cheapest place, McMaster-Carr, and they'll have it to you in two days. Also, check valves are essential, make sure that they are as close to the keg as possible, or at least between your T and your keg. Take it from someone who has accidentally dumped a quart of Stout into a Pilsner a la carbon hose, bummer.
Another thing, with chest freezers, the cooling coils are in the wall of the freezer. As the air is cooled, it drops to the bottom and pretty much sits there (warm air rises, cool air falls; simple physics). That causes a major thermocline between top and bottom, possibly up to 15 degrees F. This will cause some potential problems with your draft balancing because the beer in the hoses will be at 50 degrees, while the beer in the bottom of the keg will be at 35 degrees. When you pull the tap, you'll get a surge of head, and then it will even out. When this happened to me, I thought I just had too much pressure, not the case. One remedy is to install some computer case fans to circulate the air. They run off 12 Volts, so you'll need a power source.
I'm kind of a tech geek on top of being a beer geek and a serious case of OCD, so this was pretty much essential. If the initial surge of head doesn't bother you, then I wouldn't worry about circulation. PM me if you have any questions about doing any of this stuff. I speak from experience.
Just my point O two, good luck!
Yeah..it's would too late, sort of. I already ordered, but I did check that place out before. Thanks though! That article will be a good read later....I've been culling the web and finding a ton of great info...
Good thinking with the computer fans. I have power supplies, cords, and fans a plenty. Been working in IT for 10 years....
I have the frame setting in clamps right now. I'l put a deck screw in each corner to add a little hold, but the LocTite heavy duty is some kick ass stuff..it's like Liquid Nails. Hopefully, the stuff gets here soon, and I'll be drawing a glass of my own real soon!!
mognar wrote:
I have on old mini fridge from my college days (the kind with the freezer compartment at the top. I do not believe that there will be enough room in the fridge with the freezer set up. Is there any way that I can remove the freezer compartment?
They are all alittle different, people have done it, but space is very limited. If you are serious about building one, search craigslist for a week, and you will be sure to find a small fridge or chest freezer that is ideal.
Rick, make sure you also order at least 6' of bevline per tap. Every system balances different, and the length of kegline has a lot to do with it. the most common is 5 feet, you can go as short as 4, below that you will probably get serious foam issues. I suggest 6, because you can start there, mess with the pressure and always cut it if you need to, but you cannot add.
ricka182 wrote
I have the frame setting in clamps right now. I'l put a deck screw in each corner to add a little hold, but the LocTite heavy duty is some kick ass stuff..it's like Liquid Nails. Hopefully, the stuff gets here soon, and I'll be drawing a glass of my own real soon!!
Awesome, post pictures.
You already have a temp controller, but if you plan on doing any more temperature control, I would suggest going with a microcontroller/temp sensor/solid state relay to actuate the compressor on the fridge. http://www.arduino.cc/ is a C based microcontroller that you can get for relatively cheap if you know where to buy them. Also, http://www.digikey.com/ is your friend. With the microcontroller setup, you can get much better control over your temperature, and you don't have to worry about kinking the sensor tube and relinquishing your $60 temp controller to the scrap pile. Plus you can do the whole setup for about $30, assuming you can "borrow" some "scrap" Cat5 from your place of employment. I'm using this setup for my kegerator, lagering fridge, and my future RIMS.
I'll get some pictures later.....The frame is set pretty good. But until I get the rest of the parts, I can't really put it together. I think I may rack my IPA to a keg with priming sugar later tonight. That way, when the stuff does get here, it'll be ready....
I ordered 10' of line...The freezer is pretty small, so I think that should be enough..I hope..
ricka182 wrote:
I ordered 10' of line.....
Sounds like it is all coming together nicely! Csnt wait to try a pint off of it myself!
Keg bevline is all about restriction and temperature. I have seen a formula before, it is in the FAQ I am pasting below. See if that helps at all.
Balancing a Tap System To Reduce Foaming
Contributed by TomoMeier
Q: What do I need to know about pouring foam-free beers?
A: There are three basic things you need to do.
1) Use "Beverage Grade" tubing for the liquid line -- not the "Food Grade" stuff because it has irregularities inside the tubing which will cause the CO2 to come out of solution when dispensing. The Beverage Grade tubing has smoother insides and a thicker wall thickness. I get Beverage grade tubing from Rapids Wholesale Equipment (800-472-7431) great people that'll help you -- they know the draft beer stuff because they supply the bars and pubs with it.
2) Use 3/16" ID tubing for the liquid line because it has the greatest pressure drop when dispensing, therefore, you'll need less line length than if you used a 1/4" ID tubing.
3) You can keep your kegs at the same pressure AND dispense without having to adjust the regulator AND it won't foam. You just need to BALANCE your system.
Q: Can you give me an example?
A: Sure. Here's what works with MY SYSTEM -- I have a frig with 4 taps in the door.
1) There has to be enough pressure to push the beer up to the level of the taps. I've found that it takes ~0.2 psi to push the beer vertically up 6" of 3/16" Beverage Grade (BG) vinyl tubing (I'm sure that number will change depending on the viscosity (SG) of the fluid, but apparently it's not enough to worry about with beer). Measure the height from the middle of the keg (I'll explain that in a sec) up to the taps and figure the pressure needed to get the beer up to that point. For instance, if the elevation gain is 2'6", then you'll need about 1 psi to get the beer up that high.
The reason I chose the middle of the keg: The weight of the beer surrounding the dip tube would be enough to push the beer in the dip tube up to the same level without extra force. Example: If the keg was open and full, and you pushed the poppet down on the liquid side, the beer would come up the dip tube to the same level as the surrounding beer. If the keg were half full, the beer in the dip tube would then go to that level. I chose the middle because the beer level will change as it's dispensed and since you can't constantly compensate for it, choosing the middle seems to be the best.
2) The pressure of the beer has to be dropped before getting to the glass, but not too fast or too slow or else you can get a foamy flat beer. The beer also needs to have enough pressure to make it through the faucet. Most bars and pubs seem to pour a pint in about 8 to 10 seconds. With the 3/16" ID BG vinyl tubing, I get great results when I use a figure of 1.8 psi drop per foot of vinyl tubing and a figure of 0.65 psi drop for the faucet. This will drop 16 oz in about 10 seconds on my system at any carbonation level. Sorry, I can't comment on the "Cobra" faucets.
So to sum it up, I use:
—0.2 psi drop/0.5 ft of elevation gain from middle keg to faucet
—1.8 psi/ft drop for 3/16" ID Beverage Grade vinyl tubing
—0.65 psi drop for thru-door faucet
Example: You have a keg carbonated to 16 psi @ 45F and the faucet sits 2'6" above the middle of the keg.
16 psi (keg) – 1 psi (elev diff keg/faucet) - 0.65 psi (faucet) = 14.35 psi
The hose needs to drop that 14.35 psi so 14.35/1.8 = 7.97 ft
It would take 7 feet, 11.5 inches of 3/16" ID BG vinyl tubing to drop that pressure without foaming and without ever having to jocky the serving pressure.
Of course, this is how it works in MY SYSTEM -- it may not work like this in other peoples systems, but I'll bet it's pretty damn close if they've got it balanced to where they can carbonate & serve at the same pressure with no foaming.
Q: Do you have any other tips to avoid foaming?
A: Foaming beer can mean several things:
1) The beer coming out of the faucet should fill the faucet opening completely when pouring: no huge bubble hung in the middle of the pour stream, or an uneven pour stream. These problems are the result of too long of a beer line (too much restriction) or to low of a serving pressure and usually results in flat, foamy beer. Either shorten the line length or increase pressure.
2) It should take about 8-12 seconds to pull a pint. If it's faster than 6-8 seconds, the beer is coming out too fast, knocking the CO2 out of solution, foaming, and causing a flat beer. This is due to improper balance between the pressure and line length/diameter. Longer pour times may also cause the CO2 to come out of solution in the lines, resulting in foamy, flat beer.
3) Other causes of foaming include: use of non-beverage grade tubing, tubing pinch, tube warming, dirty lines/faucet, any constriction in the lines, air leak in connections, and carbonation not matching serving pressure.
It's a damn shame to see people talking about having to drop the regulator to pull a pint, then run the pressure back up to keep the beer carbonated. You don't have to do this if you take the time to figure out where the balance is when using the right type of tubing. Anyone should be able to take this info and easily balance his/her system with a little work. After you get this stuff down and see how it works, it's all just common sense.
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