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Oak barrels
I know these are normally used for wine, but... Could you prime and carbonate and age beer in one of these? http://www.homebrewing.org/2-Liter-Oak- … _1164.html
They come in multiple sizes up to 20 L.
How cool would it be to age say a dopplebock or barley wine in one of these and tap it for christmas or some other special occasion.
I would assume once you tapped it you would have to drink it all within a day or two. But does anyone know if they would handle the pressure of carbonating beer with the bung hammered into place?
Here is the email I sent to the company and their reply for anyone interested.
"I am inquireing bout your oak barrels. Are these for wine only or can I age beer in them. In otherwords can I prime my homebrew and age it in one of these barrels with the bung in, will it withstand the pressure of carbonating beer? I would assumed once you inserted the spigot you would have to drink it in a day or two due to carbonation loss, but again will it withstand the pressure of carbonating beer with the bung in place. Thank you"
"No... the barrels work for beer as well. First... you will do your initial fermentation outside the barrel and only put it in for the secondary. You will need an airlock/bung system to relieve the pressure.
The barrel will withstand 90 pounds of pressure however most people age it in the barrel and carbonate in steel.
In addition, you may want to season the barrel with bourbon essence. We have a lot of people making bourbon stouts these days
Cheers and good luck,"
Would probably be easier to add oak chips soaked in bourbon, but no where near as cool.
Also I am still somewhat puzzled, 90 psi should withstand priming and carbing correct?
90PSI is fine for carbing and priming.
However the reason people age in oak then carbonate in steel is because they don't want to pick up too much oak flavor.
If you plan to drink it all in one sitting (a party or something) then its probably fine.
But how will you know when its Oaky enough. You'll have to sample it, then once you open it, you'll start to loose pressure. Like opening and reclosing a soda bottle, eventually it will be flat.
brewchez wrote:
But how will you know when its Oaky enough.
sounds like a problem 9 or 10 experimental batches could solve!!
also, i was wondering if the oak flavor would diminish over time, or if the aging time would increase to get the same flavor after several batches?
still a pretty cool idea. wish they had them larger than 2 liters, but i bet the price would start skyrocketing as you got larger.
Osky777:
They go up to 20 liters. At $150 its a little spendy but If you have party I can't imagine anything cooler than breaking out an oak cask to serve your guests and really most partys will run you that much in food costs so is it really all that expensive? (I'm practicing argueing with my wife here.) 
Brewchez:
Thats why I listed the 2 L size. So you could perfect your recipe without having to drink an entire batch every time you check it.
How much oak flavor do you think these things can impart? I've always heard that actually getting the oakyness to come out is the hard part. I know that one of our local brewers here always puts 50 gallons of his oktoberfest into a cask for serving during the local germanfest. I've honestly had a hard time detecting any oakyness (It's still friggin delicious though, I go to the germanfest every year just to get a glass of it).
I think why most people age in the oak and then carb in a keg is because to really get a good oak character would take a really long time of ageing. Scotch whiskey has to age in an oak barrel for at least 3 years, usually more. I'd imagine beer would probably take at least a year to really get a good strong oak character that you could easily taste.
Rph Brewer wrote:
Brewchez:
Thats why I listed the 2 L size. So you could perfect your recipe without having to drink an entire batch every time you check it.
Yeah I get that, but keep in mind everytime you use the barrel the oak level will be less.
I think using a barrel is a cool idea, as I have thought about it myself.
But for control issues why not just use cubes or chips.
brewchez wrote:
[Yeah I get that, but keep in mind everytime you use the barrel the oak level will be less.
I think using a barrel is a cool idea, as I have thought about it myself.
But for control issues why not just use cubes or chips.
Not only of less intensity, but of different nature. The initial contents of the barrel, and whether or not it was charred will have tremendous effects. The first batch will be pretty intense woody, smoky, and take on its original hosts character. The next batch will be less intense, but maybe the same type of character, but add some vanilla notes due to the aok itself becoming more pronounced. As your batches go forward (I have heard of 3-5 batches feesible) the character will need more coaxing, longer maturation and be more subdued. I think it is completely wing it and unprdeictable, but could be a really fun experiment if you use the same recipe per batch.
I am doing a russian impy stout next week, and putting that onto 2 oz of medium+ american oak cubes per fermenter. After 3 weeks I will check for intensity, and rack when it is slightly higher than what I am looking for, the profile will probably decrease 30-40% with aging. My last batch scored a 37.5 at the Boston HC, and a 37 at the Sparge comp, took 1st and 3rd place respectively. Not bragging there, but this was made just on chips, not on cubes, with a 3 week soak, and aged les than 3 months. The same beer on cubes / staves and properly aged, may have scored 4-5 points higher.
Point being if you like the flavor of oak, I would suggest as brewchez mentioned experiment with $3-6 worth of chips/ cubes/ staves, rather than blowing $150 on a barrel, and another 50 on ingredients.
However the cool factor does raise the bar tremendously, just make sure you enjoyed the casks original contents. Either way experiments are fun, so please share the results!
how much oakyness did that impart, thirsty?
With the last batch ii was very subtle, and I actually got some vanilla and berry notes out of the chips, I dont like it to be too overwhelming, more like what I am trying to replicate a cask conditioning, like this original post. I think the oaked Arrogant Bastard is too much, I tried to get it to just under that level when I racked off, knowing it would mellow.
In my opinion there are a number of problems with using brand new oak barrels (especially small ones) to ferment or age beer in. The first is that oak is extremely full of tannins and other chemicals that can easily overwhelm a beer to the point of undrinkability. This is why bourbon distilleries and such char the insides of the barrels to help mellow the oakiness the barrels impart over the aging process. If you get a unused, uncharred barrel then you will likely need to soak it multiple times in water or brew a throw away batch or two of beer to try to extract most of that oak flavor. Secondly, in the small barrels especially, the surface to volume ratio is way out of wack and as a result the beer can become oxidized very quickly. These barrels are water tight but that doesn't mean that oxygen doesn't permeate through. Used bourbon, rum, or wine barrels are a great vessle to ferment a lambic in for 3 years because they do allow so much oxidation. Barrels can also easily become contaminated with lactic bacteria or wild yeast that will just make vinegar and this is basically impossible to get rid of unless you have a huge autoclave to sterilize the barrel. So the barrel will only have a limited lifetime and for that price is it really worth it?
1n1m3g wrote:
In my opinion there are a number of problems with using brand new oak barrels (especially small ones) to ferment or age beer in. The first is that oak is extremely full of tannins and other chemicals that can easily overwhelm a beer to the point of undrinkability. This is why bourbon distilleries and such char the insides of the barrels to help mellow the oakiness the barrels impart over the aging process. If you get a unused, uncharred barrel then you will likely need to soak it multiple times in water or brew a throw away batch or two of beer to try to extract most of that oak flavor. Secondly, in the small barrels especially, the surface to volume ratio is way out of wack and as a result the beer can become oxidized very quickly. These barrels are water tight but that doesn't mean that oxygen doesn't permeate through. Used bourbon, rum, or wine barrels are a great vessle to ferment a lambic in for 3 years because they do allow so much oxidation. Barrels can also easily become contaminated with lactic bacteria or wild yeast that will just make vinegar and this is basically impossible to get rid of unless you have a huge autoclave to sterilize the barrel. So the barrel will only have a limited lifetime and for that price is it really worth it?
Thanks for killing a dream man. 
Actually thanks for saving me a bad investment and a ruined batch. How much does one of those autoclaves run? 
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