Sterilizing the bottles
I'm still trying to figure out why you guys are sterilizing. No commercial brewer does that I know of. Do you mean sanitizing? Completely different. Sure, if you need hospital operating room conditions, then yes, go for it. Otherwise, all you need to get bottles clean is a bucket full of water and some Straight A to let them soak for a minute or so, then another bucket with water and Star San, let the bottles soak for about 30 seconds, and your done.
Notes about dishwasher: not a great idea. Remember, the jets in the dishwasher are rotating fast, and the neck of a bottle is narrow. They are not designed for that, and I have read over and over about bad results from using this. Get some buckets as I described with the appropriate cleaner, and soak several bottles at once. Dishwashers will not get the INSIDE clean enough.
Yes webby you can rinse with tap water. I did it all the time. I even brew with it. In the past I used a water filter with my mash water, but rarely do than now. If you are fine with drinking that water, then you can brew with it.
I'm still trying to figure out why we are *sterilizing* bottles and not *sanitizing* them.
Instead of changing the flat tire, replace the whole wheel. It's kind of overkill, ya know?
It's just a slip. So easy to type "sterilize" when you mean "sanitize". I did it too, in another thread. Most likely, no one is trying to do more than is necessary.
I simply sanitize with an iodine and water solution. When I am ready to use the equipment or bottles, I just shake the liquid off, and give it a moment to dry. No need to rinse, so no worry about the quality of tap water.
I have use the dishwasher method for years and have never had a problem. You need to use the heated dry, no soap, no rinsing agent, like Jet Dry, and the bottles must be clean before you start.
I would not recommend putting a bottle with a label still on it in the dishwasher. You will get little pieces of label all over your bottles, inside and out, and if you used the heated dry, it will be baked on.
For label removing, I usually soak them over night in a wash tub with some TSP (Tri Sodium Phosphate) added to the water. Most of the labels come right off, the others can be scrubbed with a green scrubbie. Make sure to rinse the bottles, then you can sanitize as you see fit.
Wouldn't hitting them hard with a bottle brush and soaking them in some hot bleach water and a good rinse take care of it?
Just asking.
Marv.
My advice would be to purchase a gallon of Sani-Clean (Five Star Chemicals), a no-rinse food grade sanitizer. Always use a bottle brush and try to expand your complete homebrew bottle line with exclusively grolsh style ceramic-top bottles. I have a two compartment sink with a main water line and secondary filtered water line. I set up my bottle washer on the main line with hot tap water, rinse the bottle and scrub with a bottle brush with a couple of sprays of saniclean, then rinse with filtered water. Use filtered water when diluting the Saniclean and you will rarely have a problem with your bottling.
Cheers,
Tim
Here's another vote for using a dishwasher with an "anti-bacterial" cycle to sanitize your bottles.
First I rinse out each bottle thoroughly with the bottle-washer attachment on my kitchen sink. Then I place them in my dishwasher along with my five gallon bottling bucket. Most residential dishwashers in the US will have the capacity to fit the exact number of 22oz bottles (30 or so) plus bottling bucket (placed over a half dozen bottles). I need to remover the upper rack and place a "shower" attachment (that came with the dishwasher) over the pipe that would otherwise supply water to the upper rack arm. If you have lost your attachment, they are available cheaply. I am sure everything would work fine without the attachment, too.
I use no detergent, and don't worry that the water will not get inside each bottle. All I want is steam and heat to kill any bugs--I have already rinsed out the inside of each bottle with a 140 degree blast at the kitchen sink. If you doubt this method, toss your brew thermometer in the dishwasher. Mine registers over 170 degrees F at the end of the sanitize cycle. For comparison, FDA's new regulations for poultry recommend 165 degrees F to kill all the bugs in your average samonella infested chicken or turkey.
If you are a purist, you should remove the rinse agent from your dishwasher. This may interfere with the head on your beer. As a practical matter though, most homebrewers pour slow enough so that they never see a head anyway.
I have tried placing bottle caps in a basket during the sanitize cycle, but they always seem to rust on me for some reason. So I just either boil them, or use sanitizing solution, either of which is quite easy.
I leave the dishwasher sealed until I am ready to siphon from my fermenter to my bottling bucket. Once I am ready to bottle, I place all the bottles on the open door to my dishwasher, then bottle the beer. This way, all the inevitable slop and mess that comes with bottling is caught in the dishwasher door. When finished bottling, you can raise the door and all the beer runoff runs into the dishwasher.
After I have finished, I run both my 5 gallon plastic fermenter (when I am lazy, and not using my carboy) and bottling bucket through the dishwasher with the upper rack still removed. This time I use detergent. Once they are clean, I remove them (I will sanitize later), and replace the upper rack.
Using the dishwasher has taken much of the drudgery and mess out of bottling.
OK y'all. For "clean" bottles, all of your methods are good. Bleach, dishwashers, etc. They will all effectively sanitize the bottle. Some may say that the following is totally overkill, but for those that are paranoid that they haven't done enough to completely clean and "sterilize" their bottles:
If you really want bottles to be sterile, you need to either autoclave them or dry heat bake them. Guessing that most of you, unlike me, have no access to autoclaves here is how you can heat sterilize your bottles. No, I do not autoclave my beer bottles. I have also only done the following once when bottles were really gross, but otherwise hot soapy water, with good brush and shaking to rinse. Leave upside down in dishwasher to dry or on bottle rack. No problems to report.
DO NOT PUT CAPS OR SWING TOP PARTS IN THE OVEN!!! This is only for the glass bottles. no plastic, rubber or other things that will melt or catch fire!
DO NOT PUT COLD GLASS IN THE HOT OVEN
DO NOT PUT CAPPED GLASS IN THE OVEN (BOOM!!!) and a big powdery glass mess to boot
Stack bottles in oven on rack, much like laying them in the fridge on their sides to fit them in. Avoid touching the sides if possible and definately do NOT use the broiler element or contact the broiler element. Don't stack too high as the weight can smash the bottom bottles from high heat and weight. (2 layers is good) If you don't want to stack them, stand them up. nothing fancy here just make sure that when you close the oven door the bottles don't fall over.
You can leave some clean water in the bottles, this will evaporate and "steam" the inside of the bottles to aid in killing any funk. Please do not leave soapy residue in the bottles, yuck, or any cleaning solution double yuck.
Close door, turn oven ON to 325 F (with bottles already stacked inside). Once oven has reached 325 F set timer to 2 hours. Have a beer, play video games, take a nap, whatever.
When 2 hours is over, turn oven OFFand allow everything inside to cool to room temp. Or wait a while and handle with oven mits.
Should you not be bottling immediately, place little pieces of foil over the tops before you bake them. then they will remain clean and sterile inside for later use no matter where you leave them, like the garage. This is of course provided that he foil stay intact and on the top of the bottle.
If you loose a few bottles due to breakage, don't fret, buy a sixer at the store and add to the collection.
Again, this is overkill. Beware that some bottles may not be able to withstand the high heat. test a few first to make sure you aren't going to loose your investment, and make a mess in the oven beyond making lasagna.
Cheers!
Somebody mentioned Saniclean (non-foaming) and Star-san (foaming ) food grade acid based sanitizers are your friends and are available from many homebrew suppliers in concentrated form.
Once a carboy, or bottle, or keg, or racking hose, or anything is clean the above products will sanitize with 1-2 minutes contact time. I use the Star-san on everything except bottles. I just swish an ounce or so of the properly mixed amount around until all the surfaces are coated, then drain for 3-4 minutes to get most of the foam out , then immediately fill. Excess foam will not cause a problem with wort or finished beer.
For bottles I use the non foaming Saniclean and coat all inside surfaces and the neck of the bottle, drain for 3 minutes and then immediately fill. It is not necessary to rinse out any residual Saniclean. My buddy and I have done it this way for about 5 years and never had any infection problems. It is so much easier, quicker than using chlorine or boiling methods
dc wrote:
For bottles I use the non foaming Saniclean and coat all inside surfaces and the neck of the bottle, drain for 3 minutes and then immediately fill. It is not necessary to rinse out any residual Saniclean. My buddy and I have done it this way for about 5 years and never had any infection problems. It is so much easier, quicker than using chlorine or boiling methods
I too can vouch for Saniclean. I like how you don't need to stress over whether or not you've rinsed everything out of the bottle. I've only brewed 5 batches but every one has been contaminant free.
I'm also all for the wash and bake routine I find it much quicker and cheaper in the long run and 100% effective. Altho I bake mine 50 minutes at 370