2008 SUMMER COMMUNITY BREW
Both recipes have to much unconverted malt. In fact, in both recipes the a bulk of gravity points is coming from unconverted starchy adjuncts. I don't really know what the outcome would be in the extract version but I would guess a higher than desired FG from the unfermented starch.
There needs to be some base malt in the all-grain recipe posted in order to provide 1) some husk material to ensure that you can sparge it at all and 2) In order to convert the starches in that grist to sugar. I am pretty sure that wheat malt has a low conversion potential. Meaning that it isn't a going to convert a whole lot of starch to fermentable sugars without the help of some base malt.
I am just calling it as I see it. I sort of dropped off this thread for a while, but I couldn't in good conscience keep quiet with the potential of several boardmates making beer that might be a dissapointment. Ingredients are expensive and I'd hate to hear of this brew failing miserably for a whole group because technical flaws in the recipe.
Sorry but that's just the way I see it.
sounds like we need to rethink this one, maybe brew something else
Brewchez..thanks for looking out. When I came up with these, I wasn't thinking about proper conversion, obviously...anyway, I just reworked the AG grains ading some 2 row for a base. What do you think of this grain bill for the AG?......
1 lb. Wheat malt
1 lb. 8 oz. Flaked rye
8 oz. Flaked wheat
8 oz. American crystal 20L
3.5 lb. American 2-row
1 lb Rice hulls
I added the 2 row, and lowered the all but the crystal to keep the gravity in check. Unadjusted we'd be looking at 7.2%, a bit high for a summer beer......and the hulls for sparging...
ricka182 wrote:
Brewchez..thanks for looking out. When I came up with these, I wasn't thinking about proper conversion, obviously...anyway, I just reworked the AG grains ading some 2 row for a base. What do you think of this grain bill for the AG?......
1 lb. Wheat malt
1 lb. 8 oz. Flaked rye
8 oz. Flaked wheat
8 oz. American crystal 20L
3.5 lb. American 2-row
1 lb Rice hulls
I added the 2 row, and lowered the all but the crystal to keep the gravity in check. Unadjusted we'd be looking at 7.2%, a bit high for a summer beer......and the hulls for sparging...
That grist looks a little more likely to convert and should work out.
I'd suggest mashing for at least 90minutes to be sure of complete conversion in the absence of an iodine test.
Good thing I haven't ordered anything yet. What does that do to the Partial Mash recipe.
Can I do a base Light DME and mash the other grains, or are we once again getting into the non-conversion issue?
Okay, so here is the AG version, with a corrected grain bill....
Brewer: BKB
Beer: BKB Summer Spiced Honey and Rye Ale Style: American Wheat
Type: All grain Size: 5 gallons
Color: 5 HCU (~4 SRM)
Bitterness: 19 IBU
OG: 1.048 FG: 1.006
Alcohol: 5.4% v/v (4.3% w/w)
Grain:
3.5 lb. American 2-row
1 lb. Wheat malt
1 lb. 8 oz. Flaked rye
8 oz. Flaked wheat
8 oz. American crystal 20L
1 lb Rice hulls
Mash: 70% efficiency
Mash however you mash.....use your own method. 90 minute mash reccomended, or use iodine to verify starch conversion completion.
Boil: 75 minutes SG 1.034 7 gallons
1 lb. 8 oz. Honey
Add Irish Moss at 20 minutes.
Add Honey at 5 minutes.
Add spices at flameout...
1oz Coriander
1oz Paradise
1oz Bitter Orange Peel
Hops: .5 oz. Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 60 min.)
.5 oz. Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 45 min.)
.5 oz. Willamette (aroma)
Yeast: White labs has WLP351 Bavarian Weizen, but it is a platinum strain, available July/August only, supposedly...
Wyeast has 3056-Bavarian Wheat, 3333-German Wheat, 3638-Bavarian Wheat,and 3068-Weihenstephan Weizen
Brewski wrote:
Good thing I haven't ordered anything yet. What does that do to the Partial Mash recipe.
Can I do a base Light DME and mash the other grains, or are we once again getting into the non-conversion issue?
We can lower the amount of Flaked Rye and Flaked Wheat a bit....of course, that brings the gravity down slightly, but that can be made of for by upping the extract amount.....How does this look?.....
BKB Email: -
Beer: BKB Summer Spiced Honey and Rye Ale Style: American Wheat
Type: Extract w/grain Size: 5 gallons
Color: 6 HCU (~5 SRM)
Bitterness: 17 IBU
OG: 1.044 FG: 1.006
Alcohol: 4.9% v/v (3.9% w/w)
Grain: 1 lb. Flaked rye
1 lb. Flaked wheat
8 oz. American crystal 20L
Steep: Crack the crystal. Add Crystal, Flaked Rye and Flaked Wheat in large muslin bag, or two if needed. Heat 2 gallons of water to 165°; kill heat, add grains and steep for 45 minutes. Remove grain bag(s). Add 1 gallon +/- to hit 3 gallons, and bring to boil. At boil, add Wheat extract and start timer.
Boil: 60 minutes SG 1.074 3 gallons
1 lb. 8 oz. Honey
3 lb. Light dry malt extract
Add Irish Moss at 20 minutes.
Add Honey at 5 minutes.
Add spices at flameout...
1oz Coriander
1oz Paradise
1oz Bitter Orange Peel
Hops: .5 oz. Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 60 min.)
.5 oz. Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 45 min.)
.5 oz. Willamette (5% AA, 15 min.)
.5 oz. Willamette (aroma)
Yeast: White labs has WLP351 Bavarian Weizen, but it is a platinum strain, available July/August only, supposedly...
Wyeast has 3056-Bavarian Wheat, 3333-German Wheat, 3638-Bavarian Wheat,and 3068-Weihenstephan Weizen
Sounds like we may be in over our heads. Maybe go with a simple dummer ale, steam ale or we can revote on styles we voted on and leave out rye. Whatever people want.
DC
ricka182 wrote:
Brewski wrote:
Good thing I haven't ordered anything yet. What does that do to the Partial Mash recipe.
Can I do a base Light DME and mash the other grains, or are we once again getting into the non-conversion issue?We can lower the amount of Flaked Rye and Flaked Wheat a bit....of course, that brings the gravity down slightly, but that can be made of for by upping the extract amount.....How does this look?.....
BKB Email: -
Beer: BKB Summer Spiced Honey and Rye Ale Style: American Wheat
Type: Extract w/grain Size: 5 gallons
Color: 6 HCU (~5 SRM)
Bitterness: 17 IBU
OG: 1.044 FG: 1.006
Alcohol: 4.9% v/v (3.9% w/w)
Grain: 1 lb. Flaked rye
1 lb. Flaked wheat
8 oz. American crystal 20L
Steep: Crack the crystal. Add Crystal, Flaked Rye and Flaked Wheat in large muslin bag, or two if needed. Heat 2 gallons of water to 165°; kill heat, add grains and steep for 45 minutes. Remove grain bag(s). Add 1 gallon +/- to hit 3 gallons, and bring to boil. At boil, add Wheat extract and start timer.
Boil: 60 minutes SG 1.074 3 gallons
1 lb. 8 oz. Honey
1 lb. 8 oz. Wheat extract
1 lb. 8 oz. Light dry malt extract
Add Irish Moss at 20 minutes.
Add Honey at 5 minutes.
Add spices at flameout...
1oz Coriander
1oz Paradise
1oz Bitter Orange Peel
Hops: .5 oz. Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 60 min.)
.5 oz. Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 45 min.)
.5 oz. Willamette (5% AA, 15 min.)
.5 oz. Willamette (aroma)
Yeast: White labs has WLP351 Bavarian Weizen, but it is a platinum strain, available July/August only, supposedly...
Wyeast has 3056-Bavarian Wheat, 3333-German Wheat, 3638-Bavarian Wheat,and 3068-Weihenstephan Weizen
You can up the extract to get the gravity back.
I would suggest maybe mashing 1lb 2-row with 1 lb rye. You can mash the crystal with it all or steep it if you like. Bump it up to 1.5# and 1.5# if you want to get more rye flavor in there.
The wheat extract is already 50% wheat so why complicate things with the wheat malt in there too.
deafcone wrote:
Sounds like we may be in over our heads. Maybe go with a simple dummer ale, steam ale or we can revote on styles we voted on and leave out rye. Whatever people want.
DC
I don't think anyone needs to abandon the summer spiced honey wheat rye "thing". I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from giving it a go in any manner they see fit.
I am only speaking from my experience regarding the potential pitfalls with the recipe as is. Like I said before there needed to be a couple tweaks to solve a few of these issues in order to create something that people will at least be able to drink and not chalk up a batch to "oh well it was an experiment".
But I fully support people who want to experiment, especially if it means flying in the face of some dude on the board that says "Hey, you can't do it that way." I encourage people to read what I am putting out here as just more info to get educated, then make your own decisions from there.
I for one have never brewed with rye and I find it an interesting emerging brewing ingredient. I am not really planning on brewing this just trying to help those who are. (Again, so go ahead and tell me to screw off)
If I brew a rye this summer I would probably go simple 50/50 rye and two row and see what I get.
But that's just me, sort of simple and straight forward.
The recipe that is here as has evolved may really be something great. People need to brew it to find out.