2009 BKB Community Winter Brew : 80/- Scottish Ale
Done. Almost 6 gallons in the carboy. I overshot my OG, got 1.056 but the good news is that I think I found what was causing my efficiency problems.
I didn't quite get the first runnigns boiled down to 1 quart; maybe between 1.5 and 2. I'm not sure if my stove sucks or what but it took almost 90 minutes to boil down those first runnings. And I steamed up the kitchen, living room and front hallway. I'm going to do something similar for a beer I'm pitchign on top of this cake and I'm going to need to borrow another burner from someone because that took forever and kept wanting to boil over.
FirePitBrew wrote:
I overshot my OG, got 1.056 but the good news is that I think I found what was causing my efficiency problems.
do tell
Not that getting 73-75% efficiency is a problem but I knew I should be doing better than that. I realized I was leaving some wort behind in my mash tun and then a few brew days ago I noticed my braided hose floats during lautering and loses suction too early.
I thought about tearing it out and making a manifold out of copper but then I found a quick fix and simply held the braid down with the giant spoon I use as a mash paddle. And I've also let my pump run until I can't hear it sucking anything out of the mash tun anymore. I've hit ~80% the last two brew days. Maybe I can rig up something to hold my braid in place but I'm not too worried about it right now. Next I'm going to tighten the gap on my mill and see if I can break 80%.
FirePitBrew wrote:
I realized I was leaving some wort behind in my mash tun and then a few brew days ago I noticed my braided hose floats during lautering and loses suction too early.
good catch!
FirePitBrew wrote:
Not that getting 73-75% efficiency is a problem but I knew I should be doing better than that. I realized I was leaving some wort behind in my mash tun and then a few brew days ago I noticed my braided hose floats during lautering and loses suction too early.
This is the most under discussed issue in batch sparging. The loss of suction because of completely draining the tun, I believe, is the most critical point of break down that keeps fly and batch sparging seperate.
When people complain about batch sparging inefficiencies, I believe it occurs right at this point. You've got to have a good set up that doesn't looks suction early. That included maintaining the siphon from valve to kettle to in the tubing.
Is it possible to drain the tun only 80% or so on the first runnings before adding more sparge water, never losing the suction? I am ignorant to what you homebrewers call "batch sparging" (holds his fingers up and air quotes)
brewchez wrote:
You've got to have a good set up that doesn't looks suction early. That included maintaining the siphon from valve to kettle to in the tubing.
Once I realized what was happening the first thing I thought of was your idea with a mash tun that drains from the bottom and how I might be able to construct it.
I think using a copper manifold might be a good option because 1) it won't float and 2) you can decide how high you want your cuts into the manifold to be. The problem with the braid is that it pulls from the entire surface which will lose suction before the copper manifold will.
FirePitBrew wrote:
brewchez wrote:
You've got to have a good set up that doesn't looks suction early. That included maintaining the siphon from valve to kettle to in the tubing.
Once I realized what was happening the first thing I thought of was your idea with a mash tun that drains from the bottom and how I might be able to construct it.
I think using a copper manifold might be a good option because 1) it won't float and 2) you can decide how high you want your cuts into the manifold to be. The problem with the braid is that it pulls from the entire surface which will lose suction before the copper manifold will.
This is true, but with any manifold system you are going to be pulling wort off the bottom and up and out.
If you could have a tun designed that simply pulled from the bottom with no need to suck UP and OFF the bottom, then you'd have a flawless batch sparge system!!!
So even using a different manifold still isn't drawing frem below....
However, you make a great point about the difference between a when a braid loses suction and that a manifold starts to loose suction a little later. Albeit I don't know if its that big a difference.
I need to start making pictures to illustrate this stuff.
thirsty wrote:
Is it possible to drain the tun only 80% or so on the first runnings before adding more sparge water, never losing the suction? I am ignorant to what you homebrewers call "batch sparging" (holds his fingers up and air quotes)
You know that sort of makes sense.... If you were suffering from a severe efficiency issue with a braid I think you might be on to something, but I am not entirely sure it would result in a significant change....
I need to think it over some more.
See the real situation here is that when fly sparging the wort is theoretically being constantly pushed to the lautering mechanism (braid/copper/FB) by the addition of sparge water. In batch sparging the wort is being pulled by gravity and in small part by siphon out of the tun. But once the wort drops below the highest point of the valve/lauter mechanism you start pulling air. The siphon action breaks down and you can leave as much as an inch or so of wort in the tun. Of course that stuff gets diluted and resuspended back into the tun with the next batch of water. And for most the net change in wort still gives great efficiency.
One key with batch sparging is that you MUST have a tube from the spigot to the collection device, otherwise you take a big hit.
I am just thinking aloud here.
DAMN you firepit!
Now you have me rethinking my direct fired keg setup. Maybe I should for the sake of homebrewing science flip a keg over and drain from the "top" with a FB......
I suppose the dream would be to combine an inverted keg for mashing with a HERMS system.....
Maybe this is my winter build project....
DAMN YOU!