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2009 BKB Community Winter Brew : 80/- Scottish Ale
Is it possible to drain the tun only 80% or so on the first runnings before adding more sparge water, never losing the suction? I am ignorant to what you homebrewers call "batch sparging" (holds his fingers up and air quotes)
brewchez wrote:
You've got to have a good set up that doesn't looks suction early. That included maintaining the siphon from valve to kettle to in the tubing.
Once I realized what was happening the first thing I thought of was your idea with a mash tun that drains from the bottom and how I might be able to construct it.
I think using a copper manifold might be a good option because 1) it won't float and 2) you can decide how high you want your cuts into the manifold to be. The problem with the braid is that it pulls from the entire surface which will lose suction before the copper manifold will.
FirePitBrew wrote:
brewchez wrote:
You've got to have a good set up that doesn't looks suction early. That included maintaining the siphon from valve to kettle to in the tubing.
Once I realized what was happening the first thing I thought of was your idea with a mash tun that drains from the bottom and how I might be able to construct it.
I think using a copper manifold might be a good option because 1) it won't float and 2) you can decide how high you want your cuts into the manifold to be. The problem with the braid is that it pulls from the entire surface which will lose suction before the copper manifold will.
This is true, but with any manifold system you are going to be pulling wort off the bottom and up and out.
If you could have a tun designed that simply pulled from the bottom with no need to suck UP and OFF the bottom, then you'd have a flawless batch sparge system!!!
So even using a different manifold still isn't drawing frem below....
However, you make a great point about the difference between a when a braid loses suction and that a manifold starts to loose suction a little later. Albeit I don't know if its that big a difference.
I need to start making pictures to illustrate this stuff.
thirsty wrote:
Is it possible to drain the tun only 80% or so on the first runnings before adding more sparge water, never losing the suction? I am ignorant to what you homebrewers call "batch sparging" (holds his fingers up and air quotes)
You know that sort of makes sense.... If you were suffering from a severe efficiency issue with a braid I think you might be on to something, but I am not entirely sure it would result in a significant change....
I need to think it over some more.
See the real situation here is that when fly sparging the wort is theoretically being constantly pushed to the lautering mechanism (braid/copper/FB) by the addition of sparge water. In batch sparging the wort is being pulled by gravity and in small part by siphon out of the tun. But once the wort drops below the highest point of the valve/lauter mechanism you start pulling air. The siphon action breaks down and you can leave as much as an inch or so of wort in the tun. Of course that stuff gets diluted and resuspended back into the tun with the next batch of water. And for most the net change in wort still gives great efficiency.
One key with batch sparging is that you MUST have a tube from the spigot to the collection device, otherwise you take a big hit.
I am just thinking aloud here.
DAMN you firepit!
Now you have me rethinking my direct fired keg setup. Maybe I should for the sake of homebrewing science flip a keg over and drain from the "top" with a FB......
I suppose the dream would be to combine an inverted keg for mashing with a HERMS system.....
Maybe this is my winter build project....
DAMN YOU!
To keep this somewhat on topic, my Scottish ale fermentation is holding strong at 60F. 
As for the bottom draining mash tun, you better do it; otherwise I'm going to. Ever since you've introduced the idea at Rick's house I've been thinking how I might be able to build it and incorporate it in my set up. I probably can't with the set up I have now but maybe in my single tier rig I want to build soon.
FirePitBrew wrote:
To keep this somewhat on topic, my Scottish ale fermentation is holding strong at 60F.
I thought this was the community "Design me a better mashtun" thread....
Scottish 80/- is caramelly, warm and toasty.... see back on topic.
Age that stuff.
Finally getting to this, mashing as we speak. Long, busy Thanksgiving weekend.
Changed a few things.
Using 1 gal from 1st runnings, adding extract at 10min, probably with the syrup.
Recipe: BKB 80/ Scotch Ale
Style: Scottish Export 80/-
TYPE: Partial Mash
Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 3.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 15.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.5 IBU
Estimated ABV: 4.95%
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.30 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 39.76 %
4.25 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 51.20 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 6.02 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.01 %
2.00 oz Williamette [4.90 %] (60 min) Hops 25.5 IBU
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale
Mash Schedule: Papazin 4 Step
Total Grain Weight: 5.00 lb
----------------------------
Papazin 4 Step
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Step 1 Add 8 qt of water at 125.8 F 120.0 F
30 min Step 2 Heat to 154.0 F over 10 min 154.0 F
30 min Step 3 Heat to 158.0 F over 5 min 158.0 F
10 min Step 4 Heat to 170.0 F over 5 min 170.0 F
Batch sparge with 8 qts @ 170F
Notes:
------
After sparge, draw off 1 gal of wort, boil until reduced to 1 qt. syrup, add back to wort.
Got this into the fermenter. That caramelized wort smelled fantastic.
Couple things changed, it took 90 min to get the 1 gal reduced to 5 cups, so I let it go at that.
Used 10 qts sparge water, and did a late addition on the LME.
Burbling away happily. Hit 1.052 instead of the estimated 1.049.
Brewski wrote:
That caramelized wort smelled fantastic.
Did you taste? I thought it was pretty good. I think it would go good drizzled over ice cream.
I would have, but it was really hot, and it was getting pretty late in the day. Wanted to get 'er in the fermenter ASAP.
Damn good idea tho, maybe a liqueur could be made with it. Say mix with a little vodka, then over the ice cream. Yummmm ----- Whammmm!
Bottled this up last night. Final gravity was 1.015 and its pretty tasty. Smooth, malty and it has an interesting caramel flavor. Can't wait to see how this tastes once its carbonated.
Brewed up a 1.099 OG Scotch ale today and pitched it on the 1728 cake from the 80 shilling. I used a similar grain bill: mostly Marris Otter, a little home toasted 2 row and some roasted barley. I pulled a couple of gallons from the first runnings and boiled it down to about a half gallon.
Kegged this puppy about a week ago. Tried a couple last night. Nice, rich caramel touch balanced, so it's not really sweet, just hints at it.
Probably be better in a couple weeks, but don't think it will last that long.
Birthday party tonight, Christmas on Friday, & it's the only beer on tap.
Bye-bye beer.
This recipe looks pretty tasty, and am thinking of brewing it in advanced for the coming cold 
. I haven't had too many Scottish style ales, only having tried Odell's 90 Shilling, Old Chub Scottish style Ale, some from a local brewery, and Skull Splitter.
The Skull Splitter and Old Chub, I really enjoyed, how is this beer on par with them in body and flavor?
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