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Another Yeast Question
I was entering the information from a dark Belgium beer I plan to brew into the Mr. Malty calculator. The beer has an OG of 1.090 which tells me I need a minimum of 2 packs with a starter or 3.5 packs without one.
My question is, do I really need to order another pack before starting this batch or will the yeast be up to the task with a simple 1L starter
Are you doing a 5 gallon batch? Is it extract or AG? Which yeast strain?
If your batch is 5 gallons, then yes, you will need a TON of healthy yeast. As the gravity goes up, the amount of necessary yeast goes up sligfhtly exponentially, not linearly. Meaning a 1.090 wort dosnt just need twice as much as a 1.045 wort, it is more like 3-4 times.
When I do a 1.080-1.090 wort, I propogate 2 gallons of starter, a gallon for each fermenter. So I would say turn your 1L starter into a 4L starter.
Real good Belgians finish dry, so not only are you asking to ferment out a high gravity, but you are also expecting MAX attenuation possible to not leave any cloyingness behind, which so many homebrewed Belgians inevitabely get.
There is another school of thought that if you underpitch a Belgian, then the strain put on the yeast draws out some desirable esters. I believe the big boys do practice this thought, however they pitch a TRUE amount of VIABLE yeast anyway, where we respectively normally always underpitch.
My suggestions, (merely suggestions to you from experience) is to:
1. produce a highly fermentable wort. If doing AG mash at 146-148 ish
2. Oxygenate heavily. Pure O2 injection is best
3. control your temperature. Cool ferment in the beginning will control your esters and keep them subtle, if you ferment hot from the beginning, the esters may be overwhelming. I start to let it warm up after 3-5 days
4. If your recipe includes simple sugar, I keep it out of the boil and add it to the ferment as soon as fermentation starts to slow down- usually the same 3-5 days. this allows the yeast to convert the more complex sugars while they are healthiest and strongest, leaving the simple job for dessert. This should help dry it out
5. Last, keep it on the primary yeast for a LONG time. You may ferment out just about all the way in 2 weeks, but the following 2 weeks may drop it 2-3 more points, and these extra points maybe crucial. A 1.090 beer I would keep on the cake for at least 4 weeks.
Let us know how things go!
Yes, it is a five gallon batch. The batch is extract with a Wyeast 3787 Trappist HG. I forgot to order more DME so I may have to use some of the LME I purchased. Do you still recommend a starter with 1.040 OG?
you can do a starter with a gravity of around 1.030, it will stretch your extract a little.
Thanks for the reply. So here is what I did, I used 1.6 cups of LME (from the kit) and added to 1.2 gals of boiling water. I figured after a 15 min boil, I would have about 1 gal of wort left giving me a target OG of about 1.040
(I got 1.045)I transferred to the glass starter container and then gave it a 30 Sec. burst of pure oxygen. I will let sit for 3 days before I start the brew. I will reduce the batch size to 4.5 gals considering I used 1/10 of the LME for the starter. I feel confident this will be successful but I still have concerns about having enough yeast to tackle a potent batch like this.
Thirsty, the sugar I will be adding is a Belgium dark beet sugar. Would you still suggest adding a few days after the fermentation has started or is it better to add to the boil? Possibly half in the boil and half following primary fermentation?
Also, with starter using the LME from the kit would you recommend to decant or add the whole thing to the wort?
What is the impact on the starter of the OG is any higher than say 1.050?
OSU_Brew wrote:
Thirsty, the sugar I will be adding is a Belgium dark beet sugar. Would you still suggest adding a few days after the fermentation has started or is it better to add to the boil? Possibly half in the boil and half following primary fermentation?
Also, with starter using the LME from the kit would you recommend to decant or add the whole thing to the wort?
What is the impact on the starter of the OG is any higher than say 1.050?
I would add that sugar to the boil. I do not want to mess with your recipe, however adding a pound of either plain old table sugar, or corn sugar at high krausen of ferment will help to dry it, and boost the OG back up a bit if you wanted to keep it at a 5 gallon batch. Basically adding back the fermentables you are stealing for your starter. Just boil it in very little water to create a simple syrup, once cooled, dump it in the primary.
If your starter does seperate and there is a definitive cake, it is best to decant, however if decanting means you may lose some yeast, then just use the whole starter. Get as much of that yeast as you can. It is also best to keep that yeast cooler, even if slightly, than the chilled wort you will be adding it to. Yeast love to warm up to their environment, and become very active, they do not like to cool down, this will send some cells into dormancy.
A 1.050 starter would be fine, it will produce a bit more cell count, however the yeast may be slightly strained. They will also however be conditioned to go up against your 1.090 wort. I wouldnt do a starter of much higher OG than that though.
if you are able to let the starter sit another day, you could let it ferment for 3 days, then put it in the fridge. this will help drop the yeast to the bottom, then you can decant off the starter wort, and just pitch the yeast. pitching a gallon of oxidized beer with the yeast can be bad. it's probably still better than not having enough yeast though. If you have the time to wait the extra day to chill it, I'd recommend it, but if you have to brew before then, adding it all will hopefully not be too bad.
I put the starter in the fridge last night. Will decant in a few hour and start the brew.
Thanks
WOW! I finished brewing at 2 in the morning and woke up the next day at 6am an the air lock was already going strong. Now the problem is the vodka has been pushed out of the air lock twice in 12 hrs. I will definitely use a blow off tube next time. The OG came in at 1.080 compared to an advertised 1.090 but I am sure it will still turn out fine.
Thanks for the help getting my feet wet with my yeast starter. It looks like it will be well worth the time invested
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