Attention: Check out the new BKB Home Brewing Blog
Batch Sparging Help
I fully understand the concept behind the continuous sparge. However, I'm not in for sitting over my tun sprinkling water for 1 hour. I've read that batch sparging is quicker, easier, etc.
I did my first all-grain batch this weekend, and it came out quite weak. The pre-boil gravity was about 1.020 at 150 degrees. The temperature conversion I saw brought this up to about 1.035. After boiling, I was up to about 1.040 at about 80 degrees.
I used 10 LBS of pale 2-row, and 1/2 LB of crystal 60 for a target per-boil volume of 6.5 gallons, aiming to get 5.5 gallons into the fermentor.
I mashed in 12 quarts at about 170 degrees strike temperature, which brought the grist up to about 150-154. After one hour, I did a vorlauf and then drained as fast as my system would allow...about 4 minutes. I then added another 16 quarts at 170 degrees, let sit for 15 minutes, and then drained this as quickly as possible.
I think I lautered too fast, but I don't fully understand batch sparging. Does anyone have a method they could share? It seems like every website I go to gives a different procedure.
Thanks!
When you added your second infusion did you re-stir your grains? Who crushed your grains?
All things conciderded, your batch sounds like it is turning out OK, not great, but OK. Lets start at the begining, Your pre boil check at 140*F is bound to be inaccurate. You simply can't use the conversion tables that far out of the initial guidlines. (60*F). As far as your sparging, the best advice I can give you is to invest or make a sparge arm. My first one I used, was home made, and really worked well, just some 1/2" pvc drilled with numerous 1/16" holes, shaped like my tun. However, I now use a "real" sparge arm, bought at my LHBS. What a difference it makes.
As far as your mashing procedure goes, here is what I do:
2.5 gal 160*F tap water, in 12# crushed grain. stabilized temps around 133*F and rest for 30 mins.
Add 1.5 gal boiling water, stabilized temp around 155*F and rest for 60 min.
Add heat (stiring constantly) to 170*F
Sparge with 3.5 Gal 170*F and collect runnoff.
My batch size is 6 to 6.5 gal.
I try to use 2# of grain per gal. Normal brewing and I go up from there.
This method generally gives me about 75% effeciencey.
Keep after it,you will work out your own method with experience.
I did not re-stir when I added my sparge water. I kind of just dumped it into the tun, which seemed to mix the grain bed quite a bit. I crushed my grains at my LHBS in their grist mill. I crushed them the morning of my brew day.
im4fishnak: thanks for the information re: pre-boil readings. I guess I'll just pull a few ounces next time, let it cool, then take a reading. I use a 50 quart Igloo Icecube for my tun, so I'll have to look into the sparge arm. I thought those were more applicable for a circular tun.
I've got some ideas for a jerry-rigged fly sparging set-up. Maybe I'll try a fly sparge next time, using your multiple rest method below.
My airlock just stopped bubbling this morning, after about 54 hours, it was going pretty gangbusters after 24 hours. I think my yeast starter worked pretty well. I'm very interested to see how it turns out...only about 11 days until bottling!
As long as you match the in flow from a sparge arm with the outflow rate of wort, a fly sparge is soooo easy!! Just set it and forget it till later. I check mine about every 15 min because i'm anal. Sparge arms are like someone already said easy to build, but I too have the store bought... it was cheap. Efficiency will increase and no more worries about what to add when in a vatch sparge. Good luck which ever you choose.
Back to the batch sparging discussion,
You acheived about a 50% efficiency. Which is less than stellar. The way I see it there are a couple simple things you need to try which will boost the efficiency.
Before you draw the first runnings (drain the tun the first time), you get the mash up to mash out temp. Gettting the wort in the tun to 168-170 reduces the viscosicty and you'll extract more of the sugars. Now many people acheive mash out by using an infusion calculator and adding some small bolus of near boiling water to raise the temp from 154 to 168. I haven't had a lot of luck with that per se. So I recommend this trick.
I pull a gallon and a half out of the tun into a small kettle (2 gallon). Then I start heating that up until it just starts to bubble (200-205F). Then I add that back into the top of the tun, just dump it in. Stir well, then take a temp reading. If the temp is still under mash out, draw some more, heat it, and re introduce it. Just realize that you don't want to be to aggressive on that second infusion, if the temp is getting close (160-162) because you will likely overshoot and that may cause other problems. If you do over shoot, don't worry, just run off right away.
Then on the second sparge, just be sure your infusion water is at 168-170 and you'll be good to go. I have found that acheiving mash out helps my effieciency considerably.
FWIW, vorlaufing don't seem to do anything to my beer or process. So I don't really bother too much with that these days. The stuff settles out in the kettle anyway.
The other thing to exam ins the extent of your crush. If you are getting your grain and a LHBS and crushing it with an in store mill. I would recommend passing it through twice next time. A small percentage of flour like dust, isn't going to be too big a problem, so don't worry about it. If you get to mash out temps you'll be fine. The common saying these days seems to be "Crush till your scared". If you order your malt on line and they crush it for you, you may be able to request a double pass. If you crush it yourself, you need to tighten the mill a bit.
Don't give up on batch sparging yet. I am sure you can get that recipe up to 75% with those two things. Heck, I bet if you just do the mash out thing (coupled with more experience the second time) you'll jump up to 70%. Let me know how it goes, or PM me if you have other questions.
(Sorry if that message is incoherent, I have a horrible head cold and I am not thinking 100% straight)
brewchez wrote:
(Sorry if that message is incoherent, I have a horrible head cold and I am not thinking 100% straight)
Yeha, but Mike, you see...even with head cold, you still make sense...I never thought of your method when I did my first batch sparge. I was struggling to add enough boiling water to get the mashout temp achieved...I got stuck at around 160....still had OK numbers, but now I know how to get better.....
Hi Brewchez,
Thanks for the assist buddy! I always enjoy seeing your posts as they've been super helpful.
I'm going to try this APA recipe again using your technique. For 10.5 LBS of grain, I'm going to strike in with 12 quarts at about 170 to get my mash to 152-154.
I'll let this sit for 1 hour, then add the 1.5 gallons of 200 degree wort for the mashout. Do I let the wort (now 168 degrees) sit for any length of time, or do I immediately drain it?
After draining, I will add 170 degree sparge water. I'm thinking I'll use about 4 gallons for the sparge. Let this sit for 15 minutes, then drain again. Do you drain this off quickly? I've read that you should drain the sparge water at about 1 quart/minute.
I will also try to crush the grains twice. The store mill just barely broke the hulls...it was a very gentle crush with almost no flour.
Thanks again for the advise Brewchez. I will let you know how it turns out. I'm planning on running this beer again on the 23rd. That was I can pitch fresh yeast slurry and save a few bucks!
Ike
Once I get the mash to 168-170, I tend to let it sit for 10minutes maybe less actually.
Then I run it off. You may consider balancing the two run off volumes. So if you mash in with 3 gallons, and then you do my trick with the hot wort to get to mash out, say you have three gallons in the tun. You may want to add one more gallon of 170F water, if you plan to use 4 gallons for the second sparge. See what I am saying. Its a function of how much you actually plan to collect. I don't always do this, but it may be something to try on your third attempt if you still have issues. Again, I am not totally convinced that it really helps to balance the two run offs like that.
Once you add the second infusion of sparge water, I don't really let that sit very long at all. The mash is already at 170, just a quick stor to knock more sugar out of the grains, sit for 5min, then drain again.
I also like to collect my first runnings, and my second runnings in seperate buckets. I don't really know why, but I do. I get the gravity of each running just to have a better understanding of whats happening in my wort.
Lastly, there is no shame in doing a third sparge if necessary. I will sometimes throw another gallon or two into the tun if its doesn't seem like I have the amount of sugar I need. Just becareful you don't over do it, otherwise you'll find yourself with all the sugars you need but its in 10 gallons and you'll need to boil it down to 6 gallons just to hit your desired OG.
BREW ON!
Great advice hereso far. I can suggest one other thing- adding 5.2ph stabilizer. For $12 the jar has lasted me about 15 10 gallon batches, I just got a new one.
A few months ago I added 2 things the same brewday. I was getting 70-75% efficiency. I used the stabilizer and added a HERMS recirc system and each batch after that I have been dead nuts 90%. I know the recirc definately helps because I can get all of the mash the same temp and get a perfect mashout. This is a testament to what brewchez' method will do, which is essentially the manual way to do it.
When the efficiency shot up I didnt trust it at first so I ordered grains to match a recipe @ 75% for about the next 3-4 batches. I came in 15 points higher on each one then I intended- except the one batch we forgot the stabilizer and hit the recipe on target. This was a huge testimony for the stabilizer and we will not forget it again.
I feel efficiency #'s do not much matter- it is the consistency of your efficiency that matters. That is why process is so important once it is dialed in. 60,70,78,84 who cares just formulate your grain bill around the proper consistant number. It certainly is nice to be higher so it can save you $$, that is why I feel that for about 50 cents a batch for stabilizer you may save from buying a couple pounds of base grain per batch. My $.02