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Dry Yeast Starter To do, or not to do
I have searched and read alot on this subject in the archives on this site and on others. I am brewing this weekend only my 3rd batch ever, so I am still not getting too fancy with all the types of liquid yeasts. I also have about 3 packs of dry yeast in my frig to use on this batch. My question is, should I boil a small amount of water and DME, cool, put into a small bottle or mason jar w/ airlock, pitch the yeast, then give it a few days to get started before I pitch it into my primary? Will I get much of a difference by doing this than just hydrating the yeast 15 minutes before pitching into the primary? I am really planning this brew out ahead of time (actually found a organics store 30 minutes away that carries a small selection of HB stuff) and want to get better at my procedures. Any help would be appreciated!
it wouldn't hurt, but for dry yeast a starter isn't really nessessary. rehydrating is usually more than enough to get the ball a rollin' Also, it says you have three packs... what size packs?? the average package is enough to pitch for 1 batch (even matches the professional pitching rate) remember there is much more yeast is a dry pack than in a liquid pack.
I have three average size packs. Just picked a few up at the HB store sunday. I have been using true-brew kits up to this point and on 2 of the three kits I have, 2 kits say use 2 packs while one kit says use 1 pack.
Simple answer is no, your yeast packets are active enough to kick off generally within 24 hours. That being said, If you plan ahead, and get em kicking prior to brew day, it sure won't hurt. But for simplicity sake, I don't make starters for new yeast. I make starters for 2nd+ run yeast that I have saved from prior brewings. Just to get em activated really good from storage.
I think it is helpful but its not essential. By pitching a starter of dry yeast you will kick off the fermentation much quicker then just pitching it rehydrated, which has the bonus of preventing other bacteria from spoiling your beer by getting the alcohol content up quicker.
A starter typically doesn't have enough nutrients in it to properly support complete cell growth from dried yeast. The cell wals of dried yeast are fragile due to the drying process. Pitching dried yeast that hasn't been rehydrated in straight water results a 50% loss of viability.
Pitching dried yeast into a starter depletes the yeast of their energy reserves just coming out of the dried state while trying to cope with the starter environment.
Creating a starter with dry yeast is bad for the yeast, and often creates an underpitching situation.
Dry yeast is so cheap, just pitch two packs directly into the wort, or be sure to rehydrate in water.
No starter is necessary.
I have always had faster starts with rehydrated yeast, than with dried yeast that was pitched directly OR put into a starter.
NO.......rehydrate and pitch........making starters with dry yeast is not recommended and using an airlock on a starter is a bad idea in itself....just use foil to cover the opening when making a starter.........
Brewchez did a really good job of breaking down why you do not want to do a starter for dry yeast. By all means rehydrate the dry yeast, but instead of a starter, pitch an extra packet. You can usually buy 4 packets of dry yeast for the same price as one liquid yeast. I use dry yeast for anything I'm brewing where the style doesn't require a specific strain only found in liquid.
Also, like Dartgod said, it's better to use foil on a starter than an airlock. The reason is you actually want oxygen to be able to get into the starter for the yeast. I sometimes just use a plastic sandwich baggy, as it's pretty cool to see it inflate a little when the starter is kicking out CO2.
DT
Well thanks for all the responses. I will just rehydrate and pitch like usual, just trying to learn some of the more intermediate phases of brewing. I appreciate the respons of why I shouldn't do it instead of someone just saying NO without a reason.
basementbrewer wrote:
I appreciate the respons of why I shouldn't do it instead of someone just saying NO without a reason.
That's what makes this place great IMO.....I came here a little over a year ago, and have become so educated just reading posts, my motivation level to brew is sky high. I'm going AG on my next brew, which is my third overall. I can't wait for the equipment to show up!!
dmofot wrote:
Also, like Dartgod said, it's better to use foil on a starter than an airlock. The reason is you actually want oxygen to be able to get into the starter for the yeast. I sometimes just use a plastic sandwich baggy, as it's pretty cool to see it inflate a little when the starter is kicking out CO2.
Do you let the baggy or foil just rest on top of the flask or do you secure it somehow? Also, how necessary is it to make a starter? I oxygenate my wort and use a Wyeast activator pack that has swelled for a day or two. My last batch was a stout with a 1.050 OG and I had airlock activity in 5 hours and am ready to transfer to my secondary ( It's only been 5 days). Should you start using starters once you start hitting certain OG's?
Sorry for all the questions.. I usually have A LOT of them about stuff that I haven't done (yet).
I just wrap the foil over the top till goes over the sides of my flask a few inches.....just for safety's sake I spray it with Starsan before I put it over top.....as far as OG goes with making starters....the idea is to pitch the optimum amount of yeast for the OG of the brew you are making.....the size starter will vary with OG of the beer you wish to make and lagers need to be pitched at a rate around twice the amount of ales.......
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
I use O2 on my starters and in my wort after cooling along with yeast nutrient in the boil....
A WhiteLabs vial or a Wyeast Smackpack will ferment your wort but the ideal pitching levels of yeast are usually much higher than provided in a vial or smackpack.......
As far as an airlock....it does not allow for O2 uptake and you will get a bacterial ring (where the stopper meets the glass) that will need to be flamed before pitching to prevent infection.....if using foil it eliminates both these problems.........
FirePitBrew wrote:
Do you let the baggy or foil just rest on top of the flask or do you secure it somehow? Also, how necessary is it to make a starter? I oxygenate my wort and use a Wyeast activator pack that has swelled for a day or two. My last batch was a stout with a 1.050 OG and I had airlock activity in 5 hours and am ready to transfer to my secondary ( It's only been 5 days). Should you start using starters once you start hitting certain OG's?
Sorry for all the questions.. I usually have A LOT of them about stuff that I haven't done (yet).
I just place the baggy over the top and pull it down a little ways, no securing necessary.
While you probably don't have to do a starter for a 1050 batch, higher OG's will definitely want a starter, unless you are looking to get a specific aspect out of the yeast by not making a starter (i.e. straining the yeast to produce certain esters). If making a really high gravity beer, it's usually a good idea to step up the starter several times.
DT
brewchez wrote:
I have always had faster starts with rehydrated yeast, than with dried yeast that was pitched directly OR put into a starter.
i think that could make for an interesting test. I have always had faster results with dry in a starter usually around 3 to 4 hours, as opposed to about 9 from rehydrated dry yeast.
vinyalwhl wrote:
brewchez wrote:
I have always had faster starts with rehydrated yeast, than with dried yeast that was pitched directly OR put into a starter.
i think that could make for an interesting test. I have always had faster results with dry in a starter usually around 3 to 4 hours, as opposed to about 9 from rehydrated dry yeast.
Did you pitch dry into the starter or rehydrate? IF it was dry in the starter, assume then that 50% of the yeast didn't survive. After your starter finished prior to piching, maybe you are back to the same pitch count as if you had simply pitched a rehydrated pack.
If you tried this experiment 10 times, I think statistically you'd see there was no difference between a 3 hour start and a 9 hour start as you estimate you have seen in the past.
Gaining 6 hour "improvement" after pitching a starter doesn't seem like much of an improvement. And I guarentee the yeasts in a rehydrated pitch are in better shape than yeasts that had to recover from the starter.
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