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Kegging
I want to start keging soon, I like my bottles but to clean and sanitize is a chore. But I love the natural low carbonation. My question is with kegs is the co2carbonation heavy and over carbonated like in commercial beers or will it stay at a natural low carbonation.
And thanks for the advice on my og and fg. Brewing beer is alot
like baking,it's a science project change one thing just alittle and it has an adverse effect on the whole
proect.
One of the things that makes kegging so great is you have the ability to control exactly how much carbonation you want. After about 1 week, your beer will absorb the co2 allowed to enter and stabilize pressure. So if you want a low carbed beer, you dial down the pressure, a high carbed beer dial up the pressure.
To pour a perfect glass each system is different but it takes usually between 8-11psi for a perfect pour. If you dial down and carb at a lower pressure like say 4 psi, it will just pour a bit slower.
The temp of your kegs will also determine how much co2 can be absorbed at that pressure you determine. A little trial and error may be necessary, but once you dial it in you can have very good control over your carb levels.
Some people actually have dual regulators so they can carb and serve at 2 diffferent pressures. An english ale you may want at 4 psi and carb to 1.5 vols, while a seperate regulator could carb a belgian tripel at 14psi to 3 vols.
Rich,
I'm just getting ready to start kegging too! I'm both excited and nervous about the learning process.
We can test these waters together!! 
I've found the help I've gotten on this site some of the most informative and understandable that I've found anywhere. And if it's understandable...it's usable! 
Keep us posted on your progress and I'll do the same.
I still carb my kegs using priming sugar, about a half a cup of table sugar boiled in about 2 cups of water will do it. I just use my CO2 to serve. I don't know if I will chage doing it this way, and force carb, but it's very easy, saves on co2, and this way I can control how cabonated my beers are before I apply pressure. I can have a bubbly belgian wit, or a low carbed english bitter, however I want to do it. A half a cup works for most beers though, leave it for a week, and it's carbed baby.
Just make sure you either start serving the beer until the pressure is low enough to hook up the co2, or bleed out the pressure, after the keg is cold, then attach the co2. If you don't do this you will get beer in your gas line, very very nasty.
bruguru wrote:
I still carb my kegs using priming sugar, about a half a cup of table sugar boiled in about 2 cups of water will do it. I just use my CO2 to serve. .
You can certainly use priming sugar to create co2 naturally, but I dont really think it is saving all that much for what gets absorbed into a keg.
The other thing that needs to be considered, is whatever amount you naturally prime the keg at, will slowly balance to the serving pressure anyway. the pressure going in will always be identicalto the pressure of the keg while the line is attached. So if you carb your keg to 1.5 vols with a measured amount of priming sugar, then attach your line at 10 psi to serve. It will slowly add co2 until balanced at whatever volume 10 psi provides from your sytem, probably 2-2.25 vols. So if you were to run 3 kegs, all primed to different levels, but served off of the same pressure, they would eventually within a week or 2, balance out.
This is the importance of a balanced system. Trial and error adjustments will give your system the ability to serve and carb at the same pressure without making any adjustments.
And lastly by not naturally carbing you do not get that priming sugar twang that I always pick out in your beers! 
First of all Thirsty, F-you, Ha ha.
second of all you are correct, they will balance out, but it usually happens as you said within 2 weeks time, or if the keg is like a quarter full. On the other hand, I make 10 gallon batches, and can't carb them both up at the same time, so If I have 1 in the kegerator, and 1 in the basement, one would be uncarbed if I did not use priming sugar.
Another thing that I have noticed force carbing, is that the beer stops conditioning? meaning that the raw malt taste never really goes away? the taste is almost like chewing a malt grain, but very faint. This taste dissappears faster using priming sugar. It's just somthing i've noticed. Thirsty, you told me once that your beer is perfect about half way through your keg, before that it's a little green. Is this what you meant?
bruguru wrote:
First of all Thirsty, F-you, Ha ha.
Thirsty, you told me once that your beer is perfect about half way through your keg, before that it's a little green. Is this what you meant?
pretty much, but i was probably speaking of pale ales. In my eyes it takes about 3-4 weeks to work the green out of the beer. If it is dry hopped, a vegetal flavor carries over sometimes as well, this seems to dissipate over time. I do have to say that most beers get better with time, meaning 2-3 months in keg, however that is because I usually brew big beers.
IPAs on the other hand can diminish after a couple of months because for me this profile is about freshness, and after many pours, the aroma built up in the keg just wanes. Ironically the only keg I have left is an IPA I made last fall and hopped the crap out of it with homegrown cascades, and it is still pouring with that freshness, Go figure.
As far as halting the conditioning once kegged and carbonated, I dont really see the logic in that. My lagers and belgians seem to continue to condition if a keg sticks around awhile just the same as a bottle would. After all it is really just a big bottle. I just think that force carbing gets it to start to condition quicker.
Realistically to me bruguru if your really think your beer gets better because of priming then I think you may want to look at your overall fermentation practice. The reason the beer seems to improve vs. force carbing may be because your getting a secondary ferment to clean up some "green" flavors from the primary ferment.
My beers seem to get better after a couple weeks in the keg like Thirsty mentions. But I wouldn't think of that as green/young beer flavor IMO. I tend to have a really long primary ferment (3-4 weeks sometimes). When I keg the beer and force carb it it seems ready to go. When I have something going for 2 weeks, it takes some time in the keg to really be great.
I know you use starters, and such, but it may be time to really think harder about the quality of the starter (proper volumes and pitch rates) and then work on a really rigid fermentation schedule with temp control and the whole 9.
I'm not trying to be a douche, just trying to be constructive. You make great beer already, but this might push your beer to the next level of greatness... and start hiding that priming sugar thing from Thirsty.
you can prime two kegs at once with a gas line splitter or this: http://www.williamsbrewing.com/THREE-VA … 8C117.aspx
I really appreciate all of your input. I learn a ton!
Mike, you are never a Deutche on the left hand side. Thirsty on the other hand, well lets just say he has a little vinegar in him in him, Ha ha.
You are correct, I have no temp control save for the kegerator itself, and I do have to ferment as season's allow, but like I said it, it's nothing the average drinker would notice, but we would. It's just somthing I've noticed about trying to force carb, I'll get the hang of it.
bruguru wrote:
. Thirsty on the other hand, well lets just say he has a little vinegar in him in him, Ha ha.
.
hey life gives you sour grapes- make vinegar!
As brewchez said- you are making great beer, we need to get you some temp control going.
andrew jensen said
you can prime two kegs at once with a gas line splitter
I do have a splitter with attachments for 6 lines, and I have 5 kegs in the kegerator. so you see the delima, I'll have 5 different beers on tap, but a total of 10 kegs full, can't carb them all, so I just stuck with what I know, and primed the kegs. I'll get comfortable with force carbing eventually. Hey, it took a full year for me to prime my bottling bucket, instead of priming each bottle by hand, so it's gonna take a while. It's tough to change, what can I say.
Thirsty, when you mention temp control, what kind of control (range) do you aim for. Do you start fermentation at one temp, then adjust to another as the fermentation completes or shoot for a flat line temp from start to finish?
OSU_Brew wrote:
Thirsty, when you mention temp control, what kind of control (range) do you aim for. Do you start fermentation at one temp, then adjust to another as the fermentation completes or shoot for a flat line temp from start to finish?
It really all depends on the yeast. If it is a IPA or a RIS, I may use a steady temp say 64 for the ambient chamber, which means the fermenter may heat up to 67-68ish during peak ferm.
However if it is a Belgian, which is usually more than 50% of my lineup, I like to take most yeasts through a climb, starting at 63 for the majority of the ferment, then when blowoff slows i crank it to 70 for another few days, then i raise it 2 degrees or so each day till it hits 80, and let it finish there. That is for the Ardeinnes strain, which is the majority of what i use.
Now the Dupont strain, which 1n1m3g uses in his award winning (and it is awesome!) saison, that usually needs to even start a bit warm, then works best at about 85 degrees for at least 3 weeks. It even usually stalls out a week or 2 in, around .040, and scares you, then kicks back in and finishes low, usually 90% atten.
Playing with the temps also gives a different flavor profile, and that is why I start most, so the spiciness or esters are not overbearing, but more subtle and delicate. yeast really like the warmth, and at these temps is when they produce more intense flavors.
Many homebrewers start there ferment 70ish, and when it peaks it may be 74-75 in the fermenter and produce a very fruity intense beer, but to me may be out of balance for most profiles.
lastly yeast do enjoy the warmth but hate varying temps, so ramps up should be done gradually. Drops in temp usually piss them off, and they do not like those, so without steady temp control, the ferment may not be as healthy and clean, much more opportunity to invite off flavors.
Out of all of the beermaking equipment available, a temp controlled chamber I think will make the most noticable difference in the improvement of flavor. I have a dedicated fridge that can hold 3 carboys and blowoff jug. i use a digital temp controller that varies 2 degrees, too warm the fridge kicks on, too cool and a hair dryer turns on inside and heats it up. This works perfect for me. The only thing i could do to be more exact is use a thermowell to have the probe in the actual fermenter rather than controlling the ambient chamber, but i know my yeast pretty well, and have a consistant process.
Hope that answers your question!
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