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late addition extract brewing
Ok so from what I've read i know the benefits of using the late addition extract method. As I understand it the reason you put some of the extract in at the beginning of the boil and not all at the end of the boil is because adding all the malt extract at the beginning leads to a higher gravity in partial boils than if your doing full boils leading to lower hop utilization... this is all completely understandable. What I havn't seem to come across in everything I've read is how to determin how much you add at the beginning and how much you add late. Is it really as simple as just dividing the malt in half? Wouldn't adding 1/4 of it at the beginning give me better hop utilization and then I could just add the last 3/4 if it near the end... or is there a reason the rule of thumb appears to be to just divide the malt extract in half?
For the best results, you want your pre-boil gravity to be what it would be if you did a full volume boil. This means that if you do a partial mash or steep grains you take the gravity either contributes and add enough extract to get to the full boil gravity and then add the rest of the extract with 10 or 15 minutes boil time remaining.
Bob
BBB wrote:
For the best results, you want your pre-boil gravity to be what it would be if you did a full volume boil. This means that if you do a partial mash or steep grains you take the gravity either contributes and add enough extract to get to the full boil gravity and then add the rest of the extract with 10 or 15 minutes boil time remaining.
Bob
This is what makes the most sense to me. Do the math on what your partial boil volume is. For example, I use a 12 qrt pan which gives me enough room for 2 gallons and malt (on most recipe's) so I'd use a little less than half the malt bill for a 5 gallon batch and add the rest with about 20 minuets to go.
ok well then i guess my next question would be.... how do I determin what my gravity would be in a full boil without taking 5 gallons of water adding all my ingrediants and then taking a measurement? or would it be something simple like for example, if i'm using 6 lbs of malt extract in a 5 gallon boil then in a 2.5 gallon boil (half the full amount) i'd use 3 lbs of malt extract (half the extract) at the beginning
abenz419 wrote:
ok well then i guess my next question would be.... how do I determin what my gravity would be in a full boil without taking 5 gallons of water adding all my ingrediants and then taking a measurement? or would it be something simple like for example, if i'm using 6 lbs of malt extract in a 5 gallon boil then in a 2.5 gallon boil (half the full amount) i'd use 3 lbs of malt extract (half the extract) at the beginning
You can certainly figure it that way as a ratio. Its probably the easiest way to do it.
You can easily calculate the gravity once you understand the formula and the gravity of the ingredients. I am not going to go through it here, but you can search for it on this forum and find where I (and others have gone through it before).
I also have a discussion of it on my blog titled: Working with PPG and Specific Gravity
abenz419 wrote:
ok well then i guess my next question would be.... how do I determin what my gravity would be in a full boil without taking 5 gallons of water adding all my ingrediants and then taking a measurement? or would it be something simple like for example, if i'm using 6 lbs of malt extract in a 5 gallon boil then in a 2.5 gallon boil (half the full amount) i'd use 3 lbs of malt extract (half the extract) at the beginning
I'm not sure if I'm thinking of the same thing you are, but if you're looking to figure out the OG before you go through the cooking process so as to make sure you're in the ballpark of where you want to be, there are some good brewing calculators out there on the internet, and they are quite acurate when it comes to extract brewing. I've used this one and it's really a good one because you can input your boil times with hops, and it also tells you what you IBU will turn out if you do a 2 gallon boil over a 4 gallon boil, (it will not take late extract addition into account).
http://beercalculus.hopville.com/recipe
It also has a huge selection of brand extracts and additions, so if you want to see how your OG would change from Northern Brewer LME to Munton's LME you can. You can even see what happens when you add maple syrup, coffe and pretty much anything you can think of. And it has a chart on the side that tells you if it will be hoppy or malty sweet.
I've also heard some people on this website say they even have a brewing calculator app on their smart phones, but I don't see why you can't just use a computer...
It's a little harder to calculate all grain as the mash temp/time etc affects the OG. But take a look.
sewer_urchen wrote:
[It's a little harder to calculate all grain as the mash temp/time etc affects the OG. But take a look.
Mash temp dosnt really affect the OG. If your process and equpt is the same all of the time, the only thing that will affect the OG is the potential yield of sugar the malt bill gives. But a mash at 145 degrees, will yield the same amount of sugar as if the mash were at 155 degrees. The amount of dextrins and the composition of sugars may be of a different compilation, but the OG should be about identical.
Now the FG is a different story. A lower mash temp produces a more fermentable wort due to the complexity of the sugars that are converted by beta amylase, and the yeast can consume these additional sugars, leaving the beer with a lower FG, and a higher ABV.
thirsty wrote:
Now the FG is a different story. A lower mash temp produces a more fermentable wort due to the complexity of the sugars that are converted by beta amylase, and the yeast can consume these additional sugars, leaving the beer with a lower FG, and a higher ABV.
Thanks for the correction, I'm still a little new to the beer and haven't yet gone to all grain, what you said about mash time and FG reminded me of an article Samuel Adams did in March, I went back to the website but it's been removed. He discussed trying to make a beer that yielded over 80% efficiancy and was shooting for 10-11% ABV without being a barleywine. He discussed how the way we mash at 150*f is like speeding up what mother nature does, and we can never do it as good as she can. So they tried this brew (Not Utopias) where they mashed at 60* for over 20 days in a fermenter, and eventually got to where they were looking for. I'll dig arround and see if I can find reminence of the article. Maybe Jim Koch can send me a copy. 
They also got a malter in Canada to try new methods of malting to increase the fermentable sugar yield...really interesting stuff! They, of course, did not get into too many details.
On another note, did you check out that beer calculator site? They have every addition you can think of, even wood chips and rubarb.
sewer_urchen wrote:
[On another note, did you check out that beer calculator site? They have every addition you can think of, even wood chips and rubarb.
I am going to have to play around there a little bit.
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