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Milling Grain
I have been buying my grain at the LHBS and using the mill they have there. They have two Malt Mills for customers to use. I pretty much leave the setting alone on the mill unless I am milling some rye, when I tighten up the gap a bit. I end up with a lot of fines in my grain, almost dusty. It seems if I open the mill up a bit I end up with kernels that are not crushed. So I just figured the crush I was getting was kind of like it was supposed to be.
The last beer I brewed I bought as a kit from Northern Brewer, Lakeside Brewery's Fixed Gear Red Ale(it has some Special B in it, for those of you who are fond of it). The grain had a nice, course even crush, with very few fines. I'm not sure what kind of mill they use but it was completely different from what I get at the LHBS.
When I sparged (I batch sparge) the wort ran freely from the mash tun, and was considerably clearer. Normally it runs aggravatingly slow, and I end up with a cloudy wort. After the wort was in the fermenter overnight there was very little that settled out, where normally I have quite a bit, up to an inch for my Rye IPA. I am thinking all the fines in the grain both slow down draining the mash tun and also make their way past the boil into the fermenter. Neither of which are probably a good thing.
So anyone have any ideas on how I can still get a good crush without all the fines?
And while I am on the subject, most of the mills I see are two roller mills with one roll powered. More of a crushing mill than an actual roller mill. Would an actual roller mill work better, or would it be too aggressive for malted grain? It's my impression that malted grains are harder and more "brittle", for lack of a better word, than bin run grain. Probably a result of the mashing process? Do the commercial breweries use the same type of system to crush their grain? Just a lot bigger?
I eventually plan to get my own mill, so this will hopefully be a moot point sometime in the future. Actually, I plan on building one. I could probably buy a pretty nice mill for what it would cost to build one, but what fun would that be when I could Rube Goldberg something?
doesn't help with the mill at the store, unless they let you do whatever you want, but when you get your own mill, look up grain conditioning. its when you moisten the grain before milling. it is supposed to help improve the crush.
I'm telling you I put off buying a mill for the longest time, It seemed like such a pain in the ass. To this day, I think it's the only piece of brewing equipment that Thirsty doesn't own.
I had all kinds of problems with my grain when I ordered it, even the homebrew emporium started giving me shit about using their mill, "make sure you run it till the grain is completely out".. Blah, blah blah. I finally bit the bullet, and bought the Barley crusher from Northern brewer with the 15lb hopper. I couldn't be happier, crush is perfect every time, soooooo easy to crush, and since I mash overnight, it doesn't mess with my brewday, I just chock it up to pre brew. you will be very happy with your own crusher, trust me.
Bottom line, when you use someone elses equipment, or order pre crushed grain, you get what you get. Once you get your own, you can perfect it
It could be the rye too (or the grist in general). I would make your rye IPA again but order the malt on line and see if you have the same lautering problems.
This is a tough question. I have a corona mill that I have been using for years. I generate a fair amount of flour but its not a big deal, it all seems to clear up with recirculation. Though I think I need to recirc quite a bit more than some other guys do to feel confident that I've clear up enough.
brewchez wrote:
Though I think I need to recirc quite a bit more than some other guys do to feel confident that I've clear up enough.
Since you brought it up... I feel the same way, how much do you recirculate? I use a measuring cup to do so, so it's easy to measure, and I recirc well over a gallon each time. Probably 1.5-1.75 gallons. Is that normal? All in all I probably recirculate for 20 min between draining and pouring painfully slow.
I usually do about half a gallon. although it may clear up even more if I recirced more, but I haven't tried, just stop when it starts looking clearer.
I recirc about a gallon. It usually starts clearing up around a half gallon but I use a gallon container and don't mind the extra minute it takes for the wort to clarify even more.
I usually recirculate around a gallon. By that time there are no grain bits coming through and the runoff is about as clear as it is going to get.
I know I should probably break down and start ordering my grain online. Even with shipping it would probably be cheaper than buying it locally. But I kind of hate to take my business away from the local shop. If it weren't for them I probably wouldn't be brewing to start with, and in a smaller market they need the business. I guess it would be valuable as a test, to see the difference in crush. The next time I am there I am going to try the other mill, see if it makes a difference.
I have read some about grain conditioning. From what I gather, it more affects the husk than the kernel itself. Of course, more intact husks should help with filtering. From doing a little looking around I see most malt is dried to somewhere between 3-4% moisture, where stored grain in the bin is usually between 11-13%. Which is what I have experience with. So it is no wonder there is a fair amount of flour produced during the crush. I don't know if it would even be possible or desirable to condition the grain to a point where it actually softens the kernels.
When I finally get around to putting a mill together I am thinking of larger rolls, maybe 8-10 inches, and smooth. I would like to have both rolls powered, gears would be the simplest solution. I guess roll size will be determined by the gears I can find at the local farm machinery graveyard. I am leaning towards using steel sewer pipe for the rolls mounted on a 3/4 inch shaft and turned down on the lathe to get them round and smooth. Maybe two set of rolls, the top set fixed and a smaller bottom set adjustable to fine tune the crush. So that i the plan. Too many plans, too little ambition...........
But for today I have my Fixed Gear to bottle, and am going to brew the Oktoberfest Ale. And get another wine kit started. That and it is cleaning frenzy day. The realtor is having an open house here on Sunday, so I have a list. Not sure why they even have open houses, they all say they never get a buyer through one. Probably just to show they are doing something. Gonna be a busy day.
I recirc for a gallon or more using a pitcher. I think that the speed at which I recirc might not be setting the grain bed efficiently either. I am guessing really. I just finished building a new direct fired keg mash tun, that'll use a pump to recirc. We'll see if that improves my wort clarity.
I brewed an Oktoberfest Ale this afternoon with the grain I got that sort of started this thread. It was a textbook brewday. I hit my mash temp within a half a degree, the sparge went flawlessly and I came real close on all my volumes. The recipe had an OG of 1.051 and I had 1.060 so my efficiency must have been pretty good. My wort came out pretty clear, not great but not bad either. So I am not quite sure what I was complaining about. 
I still think it would be good to get away from quite so many fines in my grain, but I guess that is a work in progress.
I am still fairly new to brewing, but it occurred to me that I am starting to get comfortable with the whole process and with my equipment. I finally figured out if I don't pre-heat my mash tun, my temp ends up within a degree. It just makes for a lot more enjoyable day when you can focus on the process as a whole instead of worrying about the details.
brewchez wrote:
I just finished building a new direct fired keg mash tun, that'll use a pump to recirc.
Where's the pics???!!!
thirsty wrote:
brewchez wrote:
I just finished building a new direct fired keg mash tun, that'll use a pump to recirc.
Where's the pics???!!!
Of course, once I get to brew again, I'll be taking photos while in action.
Oatmeal stout will be the first brew in the new tun.
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