My air lock has bubbles from the beer in it..
Lemme guess- SafAle -04 yeast?
Why are we not using secondaries any more? Are you keg conditioning so secondary is really in the keg? or is there something else that I am missing all together?
Sorry to hijack the thread.
ID
Irondavy wrote:
Why are we not using secondaries any more?
Personally I don't feel the need to use a secondary unless I'm bulk aging a high alcohol beer or adding something like fruit, spices, dry hops, etc. I leave my beer in primary for 3-4 weeks and it gives it plenty of time to ferment, allow the yeast to clean up after itself and for the beer to clear.
To me, racking to secondary is unnecessary work that introduces the risk of oxidation and infection (though minimal if your practices are sound) plus I always lose a bit of beer during transfer. My solution? Let it sit then rack to the keg or bottling bucket. Less work sounds good to me.
FirePitBrew wrote:
Irondavy wrote:
Why are we not using secondaries any more?
Personally I don't feel the need to use a secondary unless I'm bulk aging a high alcohol beer or adding something like fruit, spices, dry hops, etc. I leave my beer in primary for 3-4 weeks and it gives it plenty of time to ferment, allow the yeast to clean up after itself and for the beer to clear.
To me, racking to secondary is unnecessary work that introduces the risk of oxidation and infection (though minimal if your practices are sound) plus I always lose a bit of beer during transfer. My solution? Let it sit then rack to the keg or bottling bucket. Less work sounds good to me.
I agree about not needing 2ndaries. Oxidation won't be a problem when syphoning to secondary if your syphon tubing is all the way to the bottom of the secondary container while it is transfering. if it's too short and splashes you will get oxidation.
As far as airlocks, I try to remember when buying then to cut off the botton of the airlick just enough to get rid of the x the bottom. it curves in and forms an x and that is what gets plugged so easily. Had it happen 2 weeks ago when I used an airlock I forgot to cut it off of. the blowoff tube works well but I have since gone with Fermcap and an airlock. Fermcap keeps the krausen to about 2 or 3 inches during fermentation. Seems to extend fermentation time a little though.
DC
Irondavy wrote:
Why are we not using secondaries any more? Are you keg conditioning so secondary is really in the keg? or is there something else that I am missing all together?
I actually got out of doing secondaries after my 4th or 5th batch. I just didn't really see the need for it. All of my beers are around 1.060-1.075, and I like to use yeast that settles well.
If I dry hop, I throw a hop bag on the end of the hose to take care of the floaties. Alot of people are worried about leaving the beer on the yeast for extended periods of time. I mean some people rack to secondary after 4 days, that just seems silly to me. Why take it off the yeast when it's not even done fermenting yet? I think this logic stems from 20 years ago when there was alot of problems with contaminated yeast, and racking early was a matter of good beer, and undrinkable beer.
I'm a big believer in saving time, I leave it on primary for at least 2 weeks, some times I bottle it right away, sometimes I leave it for another 2 weeks, i've never had a problem with leaving it on the yeast for an extended period of time.
Just to clear up what some might be confused about, even bottling from primary you need to syphon the beer off to a bottling bucket or carboy to add the priming sugar. that's not considered a secondary. some might add sugar to the individual bottles or add the priming sugar right to primary and wait for it to resettle but I think most of us syphon off to bottling vessel.
DC
Irondavy wrote:
Why are we not using secondaries any more? Are you keg conditioning so secondary is really in the keg? or is there something else that I am missing all together?
Sorry to hijack the thread.
ID
Several people that do not keg, have given up on secondaries and are now going with exteneded primaries.
I normally recommend people leave beer in primary at least 14 days.
Those of us using kegs are sort of doing secondary. Albeit usually cold, underpressure and we can serve from the "secondary". But functionally using a keg is the same type of step as using a second fermenter.
bruguru wrote:
[ I think this logic stems from 20 years ago when there was alot of problems with contaminated yeast, and racking early was a matter of good beer, and undrinkable beer.
In the recent years of microbrew expansion, and even within our own hobby, we forget that 95% of beer produced is a lager. So when talking about a beer in general, a lager can almost be assumed. Now many think that the secondary in a lager is for cold dtorage and maturation, and when we secondary ales, we are essentially lagering an ale for these reasons, however there are 3 distinctive steps- primary ferm, secondary ferm, and lagering.
By definition this is not true. Secondaries do serve a purpose and it is exactly what it sounds like, the second part of fermentation. To properly create a lager beer, the initial ferment should be racked to secondary, leaving the yeast and trub behind. This should be done when the ferment is about 65-75% complete. The only yeast carried over is that which is left in suspension, and a second fermentation period is allowed in this new vessel, at lager yeast temps to create a clean finished and fully attenuated beer. At that time, a d-rest is performed if elected (depends on original pitching conditions) then it is lagered. This is where we as HBers usually call it a secondary. Whether it is stored for time at warm temps or at traditionally cold temps, what we call "secondaries" (because of a second vessel) is actually a lager phase- or storage, only to produce a more mellow and attractive beer. The true secondary phase just does not exist in ale brewing, because we let our beer fully attenuate in the same vessel. Large scale breweries and those who are rich, get to experience both phases in one vessel by using a conical. By allowing the beer to ferm and dumping the yeastpartway through, they are essentially performing a primary and secondary ferm in the same vessel.
Looks like I'm going to ditch the secondary since all I do are Ales. I thought that you could get off flavors from the beer sitting on the yeast for too long but as Brugru said that seems to be logic from 20 years ago and does not apply to today. Looks like my big glass carboys are going to get more use than the small ones from now on.
Thanks guys
ID
Thirsty wrote:
By definition this is not true. Secondaries do serve a purpose and it is exactly what it sounds like, the second part of fermentation. To properly create a lager beer, the initial ferment should be racked to secondary, leaving the yeast and trub behind.
I understand what your getting at, i've only made 2 lagers, and let's just say without refrigeration equipment it was a huge pain in the ass. What I think Irondavy is getting at is that everything he has read says to secondary. There are very few recipes that say not to secondary, even ales. This is quite confusing starting out, and it's more of a preference I think. Alot of information, or things that your supposed to do are not practical once you actually start to brew.
Mashing in comes to mind, as I do it the night before in a 10 gallon cooler, where alot of other people wouldn't even thing of such a thing because of contamination of bacteria in the grain. I've actually done it and it works out quite well. You would be hard pressed to find anyone writing about this way to mash. Pitching yeast comes to mind also as there are many many many writings that say a 1 pint starter is enough, where I found that anything less than a half gallon starter does not give me the results from my yeast that i'm looking for. ie: aroma, quickness of fermentation, and flocculation, or final gravity.
What i suggest Irondavy, is to just try it, I love saving time brewing especially All grain batches that take 8 hours, with my mashing in the night before, I save 2 hours, with my plate chiller, that takes another hour off, with my pump, that taks 15-20 minutes off. All of these things you have to learn for yourself, if you think your beer is better out of the secondary, then do it, if you don't see a difference like most of us what the hell is the point.