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Organic Grain Users
Does anyone have any information on how specific organic grains might taste differently than their non-organic counter parts? Even more importantly, has anyone ever brewed the same recipe, one with organic and the other non-organic and can pin point the specific differences they tasted?
I imagine that 2 Row and Pilsner malts are low enough in flavor that the differences would be pretty subtle, possibly in how grainy one is over another or a perceived sweetness. I'm mostly looking at organic base grains from Canada Malting or Gambrinus Malting, so 2 Row (Pale Ale), Pilsner (Pilsen), Munich, Wheat, and possibly Caramel (Crystal - I know, not a base grain, ha).
I guess any comments/experience with the above would be great, even better if you can compare them to their non-organic versions.
Thanks!
DT
Basically, it's my understanding that organic anything tastes better and has a higher nutritional value. I am not an expert on the subject but I have a hippie mom who routinely tells me about organic stuff and how it's better than other things... basically, I wll tell you what she's told me as long as you bear in mind that I might be (unintentionally) lying to you. 
Commercial growers use a variety of chemicals on their crops to discourage things like insect infestations, fungal growth, plant diseases etc. While these chemicals are "approved" for use on things intended for human consumption (meaning the powers that be don't think they are harmful to people) they are still chemicals. Plants absorb things primarily through their root systems, but like our skin, their leaves also are capable of absorbing stuff. So these absorbed chemicals can alter the flavor and or the nutritional value of the crop.
Another culprit which attacks the taste and nutritional value is genetically engineered seeds. Through selective breeding and biochemical altering of human food crops we have managed to produce cross bred seeds. These cross breeding results are often intended to make a plant more resistant to disease, mold, spray on chemicals, etc. This cross breeding also results in slight taste and nutritional differences.
Organic food producers who wish to label their produce "certified organic" not only have to agree not to use synthetic or non natural methods during the planting, growing and harvesting process, they also have to agree not to use genetically altered seeds.
Now, I personally dont notice much of a taste difference between organic foods and between regular shelf food, however, I have a friend at work who went whole hog on the organic only food kick... without trying to she's lost about 20 lbs ad she says that she is hungry less and feels fewer cravings. She feels that the nutritional value of the food she eats more accurately represents the needs of our bodies and therefore her body is healthier due to this better diet.
So, assuming what I have been told is accurate and that organically grown food is better tasting and more nutritious, we can extrapolate that organic grains and malts in beers will produce cleaner "truer" flavors and healthier fermentations (might boost ABV).
Just my thoughts on it.
It might be a neat experiment to brew a non organic batch and a same recipe regular batch and do some comparisons that way.
You know it's kind of funny because I agree, typically organic foods do taste better. However, for some reason every organic beer that I've tried is bland and just plain not that great. I believe this may have more to do with the limited amount of "organically certified" ingredients available and less to do with their actual taste in comparison with other ingredients.
Thanks for the explanation Jen. I'm pretty up on why one would brew (or eat) organic stuff, I just have no idea how the flavors will actually differ. Looks like some experimentation over the next couple of months is definitely due. It would be interesting to see the same beer brewed with say Canada Malting Pale Ale Malt and Canada Malting Organic Pale Ale Malt.
Andrew - I hear you on the organic beers, but I think they are finally starting to get more ingredients, especially hops. It's hard to make an organic American IPA when the only organic hop you can get is Cascade. Thankfully this is starting to change somewhat. Just from my quick looks online, it seems like new organic malts and hops are coming out every year. Check out Peaks Brewing's Maple Oat brew, definitely a good organic beer. Also, I'm a fan of the Wolavers line of organic beers.
In my next grain purchase, I'm looking at getting about 6 sacks of organic base grain (pilsen, pale, munich, wheat, etc.), so I should be able to do a wide variety of organic beers. I'll just have to buy my specialty grains from a place like Seven Bridges:
http://www.breworganic.com/index.asp?Pa … tegory=215
DT
I just read about the Wolaver's, they do sound all right. Have a hard time getting a lot of variety in Northern Utah, however. Hell, everyone here drives to Idaho to get decent beers.
To be honest I haven't tried too many organic brews. A few at the Mountain Brewer's festival, a couple locals and the large brewery offerings and even Grand Teton, who makes fantastic beers has an Au Natural that has won awards but I still wasn't impressed. Let us know how your brews turn out.
Yea, there is probably also a bunch of brews that are organic, yet aren't certified organic. I think most of Unibroue's beers are made with organic ingredients, just not certified. Evidently Canada used to be THE place to grow hops...
Well once I get my grain (should have it in a couple of weeks), I'll start the experiments and I'll be sure to keep everybody updated. At the very least I'll be able to quickly give an impression of the organic grain vs. non-organic grain. I've got a little bit of everything non-organic left, so a quick appearance and taste test should be no problem.
I would have liked to pick up Briess organic products since they are in Wisconsin, but North Country Malt doesn't carry them, so I'll be going with those canadians and getting Gambrinus and Canada Malting grains. In an effort to be a little more green, I ruled out the UK products since more energy would be involved to get those here.
DT
andrew jensen wrote:
You know it's kind of funny because I agree, typically organic foods do taste better. However, for some reason every organic beer that I've tried is bland and just plain not that great. I believe this may have more to do with the limited amount of "organically certified" ingredients available and less to do with their actual taste in comparison with other ingredients.
I have trouble beliving the the organic nature is the culprit but the few commercial organic beers i have tasted have been quite bland. now growing your own organic beer that would be sweet.
This is my first post on the site,and I'm new to homebrewing, so I wont pretend to speak on much authority when it comes to the beer aspect (I dont know how trace amounts of chemicals affect the yeast), but as a scientist (the day job), I am quite certain there's really no difference in organic vs. conventional foods as a result of being grown organically. the technical legalities of selling something as 'organic' has far more to do with that term than the actual growing conditions. And most organic products you find (outside a farmer's market) are more similar to conventional foods than some would like to admit.
a quality product doesn't have to say 'organic' to make a better food (or brew!). it has to be grown by someone who knows what they're doing (that includes growing conditions, soils, nutrients, harvest, etc) and how fresh the product is.
alphadelt402 wrote:
This is my first post on the site,..... but as a scientist (the day job)
Welcome to the board. Now if Bruguru starts to give you a hard time about being a scientist you can just refer his comments to me. Us science guys need to stick together.
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