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Questions about Extracts.
Currently brewing partial mash. Couple of questions. I just did 2 of my own recipes and the 1st one turned out well. Second one I'm kegging Sunday.
When formulating a recipe...
Do you need to add both dry and liquid extract..
If you just add one when do you add. When I brew with both I do the dry at the 1st part of the after sparging the grains. Liquid I add 30 minutes into it. Does it make a difference?
I usually do a basic pale malt as a bash dry extract then maybe a flavored liquid. Is this correct and can I switch it up. Would it make a difference?
I wasn't done. Sorry.
I usually do 3 to 4 pounds of liquid/Dry and 4 to 5 pounds of Grains. How much does it effect it if I do less liquid or dry and more grains?
Thanks for you help.
Here is my bitter sweet amber recipe. I thought it turned out well.
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 35.29 %
2.00 lb Amber Liquid Extract (12.5 SRM) Extract 23.53 %
2.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 23.53 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.88 %
0.50 lb Wheat Malt (46.0 SRM) Grain 5.88 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 5.88 %
1.00 oz Williamette [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 18.7 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (30 min) Hops 7.2 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 3.4 IBU
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Wyeast Ale Blend (Wyeast Labs #1087) Yeast-Ale
Ingredients don't always match up when I order my ingredients.
Liquid and dry are technically the same; one just is completely dehydrated while one is condensed to a syrup. That basically means there is more water in the liquid. So there is more fermentable sugars in a lb of dry compared to a lb of liquid due to water weight.
As far as when to add...well this is up to you. As long as it is boiled for 10 minutes it will be fine. However, it will affect hop isomerization due to the density of the wort.
For flavor I would recommend using light extract and get all of your flavors from steeping grains so that you know what you are using to get what you want. Thats not to say that there isn't good amber extract or stout extract but you have no control and you're using what you get rather than what you want for color and flavor. Since you are doing mini mashes this opens up a lot of other specialty grains that require mashing for conversion.
When you say that your ingredients don't always match up are you referring to Lovibond (color) and aa%? If this is the case you just need to adjust the amount you use to achieve your desired result.
They don't match up from beersmith to the site I order from.
What converstions should I be doing when choosing grains and extract?
So it really doesn't matter other than more fermentable sugars with dry. So should I use both or just one. Before I started my own recipes I used kits. Some kits used liquid, some dry and some both.
Using a pale dry malt rather then both liquid and dry is the 4 pounds liquid or dry and 4 pounds grain combination stay or less extract and more grains.
I only use liquid extract for now haven't ever used DME. I add depending on the color I want out of the finished beer. My pale ales i always add the LME the last 10 minutes of the boil. If I add it any earlier the sugar seems to carmalize a bit and i get more of an amber ale instead of pale ale. If I"m doing a stout I'll add it at the beginning of the boil because if it carmalizes a bit who cares the thing is gonna be black anyway. As far as flavor goes I haven't ever noticed anything "off" ever. once again stouts have so much toasty roasty flavor going on anyway..........
ID
I prefer DME over LME for freshness reasons. No telling how long the LME has been in the container or can.
If some LME is on sale I might get it if my budget is tight but usually I go with just DME. Also LME has a tendancy to scorce as it drops right to bottom of brewpot and if not stirred thouroughly will burn on bottom of pot during boil.
I alsway use Light or versions of light DME for reasons brewchez mention. you can understand t he contibution of grains and specialty grains better that way.
DC
What about the amount for a partial mash. Should I stay with the 4 pounds of DME/LME and 4 pounds of grians.
BK wrote:
What about the amount for a partial mash. Should I stay with the 4 pounds of DME/LME and 4 pounds of grians.
That's up to you. The only way it would hurt doing that is if you don't get the efficiency from the grains you were aiming for. Then it would affect the gravity readings. If you're confident you can get 70% efficiency then it would be fine going that route. The more grains you use the more important it is to get the efficiency right.
DC
When I was using kits thats what it was before. Some if the partial mash recipes I've been reading has a similar. So whats the least amout of extract can I use.
You don't need extract at all. You can use 1 oz, or 1/2 oz or all extract. Point is there isn't any perfect combination of grains and extract. the important things is if you use grains and are using them as part of the gravity needs you need to know what your fficiency will be or close to it or your beer will taste like carbonated water. extract helps take guesswork out of it for those of us who aren't seasoned all grainers. BeerTools is a site where you can formulate your own recipes according to different styles. It helps take the guesswork out of it. It's free too or you can upgrade to a premium version. I still use the free version. you can also put your recipes in a brewing library which is what I do so if one turns out good I can always access it there to make it again.
DC
BK wrote:
What about the amount for a partial mash. Should I stay with the 4 pounds of DME/LME and 4 pounds of grians.
This post is in reply to all you questions.
When I did extract brews I eventually just wen to all dry, because I found it easier to work with for measuring and resealing. Also I found that DME was more reliable than LME from a freshness standpoint, because DME has a better shelf life.
I always added all my extract at the beginning before my water boiled. But I was also doing full volume boils so color change wasn't an issue like doing a concentrated boil. (i.e. all the extract in only 2 gallons, then topped off in the fermenter with water to get to 5 gallons).
Seeing how you are doing partial mash, you could just boil your mashed wort, add hops on schedule, then with 15 minutes left add your DME and or LME. That will limit darkening on the extract and it will take less energy from the stove to keep the thing cooking (that second part is a minor point).
And as for more grains and less extract.... the more wort you create with a larger patial mash, the better the beer will get in most cases. That portion of the total wort will be fresher and you will have had more control over the profile of the wort (who really knows what goes into making a pound of amber DME??).
As for your last question that I quoted above. You need to just figure that out for yourself based upon what you want for final gravity to be. But the two do not need to be balanced. You can get 75% of your wort from the partial mash if you want.
The reason people do partial mash normally is because they don't have the room for a full mash or full boil. So they do a small mash to have some control over the final wort profile, but they still use extracts to make up the bulk of the wort.
If you find that your really starting to do more than 50% of the wort from mashing, then maybe its time to just drop the extract and go the rest of the way to all grain, because your more than half way at that point.
My last point is to start using just light DME or LME. Stay away from extracts called golden, amber or dark. Because when you do finally make it to all grain your going to ask yourself, so what is in dark DME? And no one has the answer to that. If you start only using light DME now, it will save you that headache later, because all your recipes will contain the coloring and flavoring from grains. Then you'll just be adding base malt to get the gravity to where you want it. And not coming up with a grainbill that mimicks 2lbs of amber DME and 3.3lbs of dark LME.
That helps a lot. Thanks. I've been looking at all grain equipment and reading about it. I'm not there yet but sometime soon. Its the time that gets me. I just went from extract with grains to partial about 3 tos beers ago so Im still learning. My last 2 were my own try at making a recipe. Turned out good. Amber and a Wheat.
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