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rolling rock clone
I'm making the Rolling Rock clone that was in BYO. As RR has dms in it, the recipe says to boil with the lid on. My concern is building up too much dms and ruining the beer. How long do you think I should boil with the lid on, or just avoid that part altogether?
secondly, I forgot to order yeast nutrient. Anything I can use in place of that?
On another note, my last lager I used White Labs 802 Budejovice yeast. It was a Cali Common, but the hop flavor and aroma was a disappointment compared to the last one I brewed with San Fran lager yeast. For the RR clone, I was going to switch back to the SF yeast, but they were out, so I got Wyeast 2112. First time using this yeast, hopefully it is as good or better than the White Labs.
There is an episode of Basic Brewing Radio about yeast starters that I listened to recently. For a nutriant the guest on the episode boiled a packet of dry yeast to kill off the yeast and then pitched that as nutriant. It's all the building blocks for new yeast. I'm not too sure about the method, but perhaps that is worth looking into. Can't think of too many reasons why it wouldn't work.
cool, I have a pack of s-23 that I won't be using. I'll dump that in the boil.
anyone have temp recommendations for the 2112? the white lab's San Fran lager says it can be fermented down to 50, which is what I was planning to do, but the Wyeast site says 2112 is not recommended for cold ferments.
A 90 minute boil is usually required to drive off the DMS, I would shorten that and just do a 60 minute boil. Although DMS is slightly detectable in RR, it is not a desired attribute for the style (really any for that matter) but it does make RR unique. I wouldnt mess with a covered boil, just shorten it if you want that desired effect.
It is also said that only 50% of people can detect DMS, others just dont get it, can you detect it in RR yourself?
Or drink it while eating some creamed corn.
What is DMS?
I taste it a little in RR. Wasn't sure that was what it was until I read about it though. I knew there was something different in it. I was planning on doing a normal 60 min. boil. I have heard the 90 min. boil thing for beers with pilsner malt, but this recipe doesn't have pilsner, it has American 6-row. even if I don't get any dms, I'm sure it will end up as a nice refreshing golden lager, so it'll be what I'm after.
DMS is dimethyl-sulfide. Its responsible for the sulphur/vegetal like aroma in many light lagers. Especially the ones in green bottles. Many people describe it as corn or creamed corn, hence Thirsty's reference.
Which brings me to my question.
Is it really DMS, or is it slight skunk from the green bottles?
I wouldn't mess around with trying to replicate a flawed product by changing my process. If you are trying to make a nice american lager just do it right. Screw BYO for suggesting such things. Depending on how much SMM (the precursor to DMS) there is in you pilsner malt, you might totally blow past RR amounts and have a creamed corn bomb on your hands.
DMS is dimethyl-sulfide. Its responsible for the sulphur/vegetal like aroma in many light lagers. Especially the ones in green bottles. Many people describe it as corn or creamed corn, hence Thirsty's reference.
Which brings me to my question.
Is it really DMS, or is it slight skunk from the green bottles?
I wouldn't mess around with trying to replicate a flawed product by changing my process. If you are trying to make a nice american lager just do it right. Screw BYO for suggesting such things. Depending on how much SMM (the precursor to DMS) there is in you pilsner malt, you might totally blow past RR amounts and have a creamed corn bomb on your hands.
Hogarthe wrote:
I, it has American 6-row..
If you havent bought the products yet, I would avoid 6 row as well unless you planned on doing a stepped mash with a rest at 125 for a half hour or so. 6 row is undermodified, which means it has great diastic power to convert other starches to sugar, however its own starch content needs to be coaxed out with a protein rest. It is a bit harder to work with to get proper extraction. Big brewers use it because it helps convert the large adjunct (rice and/or corn) in the recipe.
I already bought the ingredients, so I'm stuck with it. Actually I brewed it yesterday. I ended up with much less than 5 gallons, but the og was 10 points higher than the recipe said. If the volume was right, I probably would have been under. I didn't know 6 row was harder to convert than 2 row. I had heard it had more diastatic power.
I don't think 6-row is harder to convert. And the starches are just as modified as in 2 row.
Briess lists extract course grind at 76.5 and 79.5% for 6-row and 2-row respectively.
That doesn't seem to indicate the starches being trapped up in the protein any more than 2-row.
Total protein for both is basically the same as well.
Briess lists its 2row at 140 Lintner and 6 row is 180 Lintner. Lintner is the scale used to judge enzymatic potential. 6-row is only 28% more enzymatic than 2-row, which may see significant but its not.
Munich which converts fine, is only 40 lintner normally.
So both 2-row and 6-row are plenty enzymatic. Despite the 28% difference they are both so active that the conversion of the starches for both happen very fast and that 28% difference is only a difference in the lab not in the tun.
Your fine with the 6 row
so what Litner does a grain need to be to be self converting and to be able to convert adjuncts?
What I have read is that the total lintner of the mash needs to be around 40 total.
So for instance, if you wanted to mash Munich malt with 20% of adjuncts or other grains that have no lintner (crystals, roasted malts etc etc) you'd be pushing the limits because the total lintner of the mash is being diluted out by the non converting grains.
To be more clear, 8#munich=40*8 or 320 lintner, 2# adjunct=0*2 or 0 lintner. 320 total lintner divided by 10# is 32Lintner for the mash. Under the total. It will convert but very slowly.
But if you did 6-row it would be 8#*180Lintner=1440lintner, 2#*0=0. 1440Lintner/10# is 144 Lintner. Still plenty of linter above 40Lintner for the whole mash. (You can see why its possible for the big breweries to get away with super cheap corn or rice mashes, even at 50% adjunct you'd be at 90Lintner with 6-row).
At 140 lintner the mash converts very quickly.
I've been toying with an idea for an experimental American Lager sort of beer. 8 lb Ashburn Mild malt, 2 lb flaked corn, somewhere around 20 IBU, and an oz of a noble type hop at 15 min. I didn't know if the Ashburn Mild malt would convert the corn, but it's listed as 65 Litner, so 8*65= 520. 520 divided by 10= 52, so it would convert.
what do you all think of this recipe idea? would flaked rice be a better option than the corn? or is the whole idea bad?
Hogarthe wrote:
I've been toying with an idea for an experimental American Lager sort of beer. 8 lb Ashburn Mild malt, 2 lb flaked corn, somewhere around 20 IBU, and an oz of a noble type hop at 15 min. I didn't know if the Ashburn Mild malt would convert the corn, but it's listed as 65 Litner, so 8*65= 520. 520 divided by 10= 52, so it would convert.
what do you all think of this recipe idea? would flaked rice be a better option than the corn? or is the whole idea bad?
.
I used flaked corn in an american cream ale all the time and I like it. BUt I have noticed that as the beer ages it seems more corny. I might try rice next time because its definately cleaner in taste.
If you want clean taste and an adjunct that ferments out dry I'd say rice.
The corn doesn't really taste overly corny and its sort of a mouthfeel thing IMO. SO don't get the wrong impression.
BUt because I said all this I've probably ruined you for corn now as you'll always think the beer you brew tastes like corn even though it doesn't....but it does....
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