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secondary?



Hello, I'm getting ready to brew an Oatmeal Stout and purchased a 6-pack of Vanilla Beans to add. As I'm browsing different threads about when, and how much, to add the beans, folks keep using the term "secondary"...as in when they add them. Is this referring  to secondary fermentation? I've not done a secondary fermentation on either my Belgian and Pale Ale...is the secondary necessary for brewing a stout? 

If a secondary is unnecessary, then I assume that I have at least two options: 1. throw the beans in near the end of the boil or 2. add the beans to the ferment bucket with the yeast

It also seems that deciding how quickly I intend to drink it plays a part in which option above that I choose? For example, if I'm going to drink it ASAP, the adding beans to the boil will give me the vanilla flavor I'm looking for. In contrast, if I intend to leave it in the bottles/kegs for a while, then adding the beans to the ferment, (or perhaps at bottling?) is the best route.



 

The term secondary is really mostly a clarifying or flavoring stage.  The beer is transferred to a second (ary) container.  This has several uses, it helps to remove more of the yeast that is still in suspension by giving it more time to fall out before the layer of dead yeast at the bottom starts giving off flavors, and it is a good time to add flavors.
   This is a great time to add flavors because there isn't much fermentation going on so there isn't much escaping CO2 to carry away those wonderful aromatic flavors of the vanilla.  Less vanilla flying away = less you have to add and we all know how expensive those things can get. wink and more cash for more beer is always a better thing.
   Also those vanilla beans are very potent!  You should only have to add one for 3-4 days and you will have a distinct vanilla flavor.  Another nice thing about adding in secondary is you can taste a little bit of it every day and when there is just a little bit to much vanilla flavor then pull the beans out.  The flavor will mellow out some and end up just about where you want it.
   personally I don't secondary my beers all that often.  Except when I am using a low to Mid flocculating yeast strain which is not often.
   Great questions.  keep on brewing

ID

 

Racking a beer to a secondary fermenter isn't necessary.  Like Irondavy said there isn't any fermentation taking place at this point and is mostly used for further aging or adding things like fruit, dry hops, spices, etc. 

I wouldn't add vanilla to the boil because you'll lose all those aromatics that suggest vanilla flavor.  Usually people add them to secondary at 2 beans per 5 gallons.  You'll have to sample the beer every few days and then rack the beer when it has the right amount of vanilla you're looking for.   There's not really a set amount or time because of the varying potency of the beans and the amount of flavor you're looking for. 

If you've never used vanilla beans before what you want to do is slice them down the middle lengthwise and use a well rounded knife like a butter knife and slide that down each half to scoop out of the "guts"  that look like black specks.  Then chop up the bean into a few pieces and add everything into your fermenter.

 

Just for debate:

I know that the boil and the ferment will drive off some aromatics from the bean, but IronDavy points out how potent they are too.  Is it possible to consider that if you put 1 bean, maybe even two beans in at flame out that you'll get a enough vanilla flavor such that you can sacrifice some to the "blow-off"  portion of boil and ferment; then skip the secondary process.

That's what I do with spices, like cinnamon and nutmeg etc.  I overshoot at flameout and get a much more subdued level that if I had added the same amount at secondary.   This allows a quick heat sterilization of the beans (or spices in my case.)

Just mentioning it for the sake of debate and discussion.

BTW: nice question shalinsky



 

I haven't had good luck with vanilla beans.  Maybe its the beans I've used, I don't know.  But I've added them to secondary and have gotten poor results.  I guess that's why I'm reluctant to suggest adding them to the boil. Based on my experience, in terms of potency, I wouldn't even put vanilla beans in the same category as cinnamon, nutmeg, and lets say ginger as well.

 

FPB:  Can you better define poor results?  It sounds like you are saying too much flavor.  But that is a good thing to me because its was to pull back on subsequent brews.  You don't even have to use a whole bean.

If that's the case what about using extracts instead at bottling time.

 

By poor results I mean that the vanilla flavor and aroma is severely lacking.  I've decided that I'm done using vanilla beans from brew shops and next time I'm going to order them from this place which specializes in just vanilla.  I'm also going to experiment with quality vanilla extract to see if I can get the results I'm looking for.

 

From Stones web-site:

A note on vanilla beans:
Although there are many varieties of vanilla beans, in general, Bourbon and Tahitian vanilla beans are mostly used in food production. Bourbon vanilla beans are also commonly known as Madagascar vanilla beans because that is where most of them are grown, although the species apparently originated from Mexico. Bourbon beans are long and slender, have a creamy, strong vanilla flavor. Tahitian Vanilla Beans are plumper, shorter, and have a fruitier flavor. The flavors are different, so it’s fun to run trials with different beans. We used Madagascar (Bourbon) vanilla beans in the Stone 09.09.09 Vertical Epic Ale.
Regarding vanilla extract and vanilla flavor: Most vanilla flavorings are not created from vanilla beans, they are extracted from wood! Be careful if you want to use vanilla extract or flavor instead of whole vanilla beans in your beer. Make sure it is natural vanilla extracted from vanilla beans, not an artificial extract or flavor. And actually, vanilla beans are easy to find and use, so there’s no reason not to use real beans in your brew.



 

Just callng vanilla flavor I believe is actually a misnomer. It is all really aroma from the oils within the pulp of the bean. Kind of like hop oils, making dryhopping the preferred method to capture purity.

I have done many batches, and found 2 whole split beans for 3 weeks is perfect for 5 gallons. There will be a very intense amount of vanilla, but this will subside with conditioning. It seemsyot subsides 70-80% over time, so I shoot for a target intensity of 120%, making my aged beers perfect not faint. My vertical epic clone I did last fall is perfect right now, mellowed and smooth. smile

 

I would crush the vanilla beans, put them into a sanitized muslin hop sack and toss them into the fermenter right after pitching your yeast. I use 2 gallon fermenters and keep them at a constant 70F for 21 days regardless of the Ale recipe types I've brewed. You may have to adjust the number of vanilla beans according to your tastes and fermenter volume size.

Screwy Brewer

 

I recently made a very high gravity vanilla bourbon porter, and went through this same process with the vanilla beans (with some wonderful help from these forums.)  I used 2 beans with the recommended "processing" (cut lengthwise, scrape out gunk, quarter the outside), and added them to secondary, after a 20-30 minute soak in some very good bourbon (for flavor and sanitation reasons).  The two beans used were PLENTY of potency for my brew, almost overpowering the strong bourbon and porter-like flavors I was expecting.  It has since mellowed (bottled 3 1/2 weeks ago; tastes awesome), but next time I would only use one bean, or maybe even a bean and a half.

 

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