YEAST: the power and the glory
On my last batch, I used a stir plate for my starter (first time i've done this), and I used Servomyces White labs yeast nutrient. Wow, am I impressed with the results. My favorite yeast is Wlp005, and I always have a problem with it on the first gen keeping it from flocculating to soon, I end up having to swirl it around to finish up. A few times i've banged in S-04 dry yeast to get it to finish, it's been that big a pain in the ass for me. This time it finished in 5 days? Wow, 5 days instead of around 14days. I'm still going to leave it a few days to clean up, but god damn what a difference.
The only problem is that I don't know what the reason was for the great fermentation, was it the stir plate, or the yeast nutrient. I've used other Nutrients before, but never with results like these. Not that it matters i'm going to be using the stir plate for all batches now. I left it on the plate for 2 days, and had fermentation in 4 hours, pretty damn impressive. In the overall picture, I don't think we as brewers talk about yeast enough. We either keep our secrets to ourselves, or just expect everyone does the same thing. Pitching great healthy and adequate yeast is the best thing that you can do to make a great beer.
In your example, I'd bet your results were a mixed bag of the two new changes to your yeast prep step.
However, I'd feel confident saying that more that 50% of the improvement was the stir plate.
I have been meaning to use some of that servo-nutrient stuff, just haven't yet. But I always use a stir plate and get great results.
And yes, for all the talk we do about this ingredient over that ingredient in a recipe...great beer really is a function of yeast. Moreover, its not so much the choice of yeast, but the management of your fermentation.
From providing the right amount f the healthiest yeast possible to maintaining optimal fermentation temperatures through out the ferment. These things are really what seperate drinkable beer from good beer and stellar beer.
When I started brewing I did alot of reading, looking back I dont' think any book talked about it enough. Seriously, look through your brewing books, it should be page 1 chapter 1. Make sure you have the best freaking yeast you can possibly get. They should tell you this right off the bat, and how to get there. Use ample quantity of yeast, watch your fermentation temps like a hawk, and use a god damn stir plate.
Seriously I've been brewing pretty regular, and i've come from store bought Mr. beer kits to a 10 gallon all grain system in 3 years, and I just started making starters last year? why? because alot of books, hell even right on the yeast it tells you only if your beer is over 1.060 do you need to make a starter. Very few of my beers go above this. (apparently i'm bizzaro Thirsty). It's not wrong information, it's just not correct information. When Thirsty told me he made gallon starters I really thought he was off his f$%^ing rocker, why? Because everything I read said nothing about starters that large, and all of the brewing people wouldn't leave out somthing that important right?
Hell even you brewchez, you told me you had a stirplate, but you didn't tell me you used it every time you brew? You didn't grab me by the shoulders and say, hey get a stirplate it's really the way to go man. You and 1n1m3g would be playing slap ass in the corner talking about yeast this, and yeast that, but you never shared it with me?
Yea, that's right i'm blaming everyone who ever showed me how to brew, but i'm on to you, i'm on to all of you now. Ha ha kidding
but seriosly watch your yeast man, your beer will thank you for it.
bruguru wrote:
Hell even you brewchez, you told me you had a stirplate, but you didn't tell me you used it every time you brew? You didn't grab me by the shoulders and say, hey get a stirplate it's really the way to go man. You and 1n1m3g would be playing slap ass in the corner talking about yeast this, and yeast that, but you never shared it with me?
Yea, that's right i'm blaming everyone who ever showed me how to brew, but i'm on to you, i'm on to all of you now. Ha ha kidding
This is my favorite website in the world.
I am scared to think what your beers are going to taste like now. Next time I have one of your beers I'll probably just stop brewing it'll be so good.
The only saving grace I have over you is that I have TWO stir plates!
bruguru wrote:
When Thirsty told me he made gallon starters I really thought he was off his f$%^ing rocker, why? Because everything I read said nothing about starters that large, and all of the brewing people wouldn't leave out somthing that important right?
You and 1n1m3g would be playing slap ass in the corner talking about yeast this, and yeast that, but you never shared it with me?
.
That reminds me, tonight I have to boil up 3#s of DME for my 3 gallon starter! Seriously, 12 gallons of dopplebock going on WLP833 friday, need those jugs to be rippin by then.
BG, didnt you ever notice that when you would meander on over to try and join their yeast conversations, you would hear things like "how about them redsox huh? I think Varitek is going to have a great year this year!" Do you really think they were talking about the sox? They just know your kryptonite!
1n1m3g is full of all kinds of fancy yeast secrets, he'll be glad to tell you about them, the only problem is it is impossible to understand what the hell he is talking about! I mean seriously dude, who counts things out in moles?
brewchez wrote:
bruguru wrote:
Hell even you brewchez, you told me you had a stirplate, but you didn't tell me you used it every time you brew? You didn't grab me by the shoulders and say, hey get a stirplate it's really the way to go man. You and 1n1m3g would be playing slap ass in the corner talking about yeast this, and yeast that, but you never shared it with me?
Yea, that's right i'm blaming everyone who ever showed me how to brew, but i'm on to you, i'm on to all of you now. Ha ha kiddingThis is my favorite website in the world.
I am scared to think what your beers are going to taste like now. Next time I have one of your beers I'll probably just stop brewing it'll be so good.
The only saving grace I have over you is that I have TWO stir plates!
LOL. Do I sense a sales pitch coming????
DC
Three gallon starter Thirsty? Do you do a starter for your starter's starter? You may need to borrow both of Brewchez' stir plates. Oh, wait. Two was this morning. He probably has three by now.
Crabnut wrote:
Three gallon starter Thirsty? Do you do a starter for your starter's starter? .
I actually planned on doing a 2 step starter for this one, but forgot about it last night. I am tossed up about doing it now, not sure if I have enough time. I was going to do 1 gallon split into 2 jugs, then the next day decant off, split into 4 jugs, and add a 1/2 gallon to each. I still might do that. I have 2 vials to pitch, so I want to make it big and healthy! Or I will just put 3/4 gallon into each jug and split the vials.
Yeah, I can't figure out why it says right on the white labs tubes and the wyeast activatore that its enough yeast. For the longest time I figured they had to be right, and didnt know why everyone was talking about starters. Now I do a starter if I'm using liquid yeast, but I've only got a 3 liter bottle to do them in, and no stir plate.
seriously the yeast companies should either increase the yeast count in the packs or just tell you to make a starter.
Hogarthe wrote:
Yeah, I can't figure out why it says right on the white labs tubes and the wyeast activatore that its enough yeast. For the longest time I figured they had to be right, and didnt know why everyone was talking about starters. Now I do a starter if I'm using liquid yeast, but I've only got a 3 liter bottle to do them in, and no stir plate.
seriously the yeast companies should either increase the yeast count in the packs or just tell you to make a starter.
Well lets be fair.
It is enough yeast to make beer. Its enough yeast to make good beer. Most of us got started just pitching a vial or a smack pack, and we thought our beers were pretty good.
When we make a starter, sure the beer definately improves. In some cases significantly so.
The thing to keep in mind here is that you need to keep it simple enough for the lowest common denominator. No one HAS to make a starter to make good beer. Once you get into the hobby and start thinking about making better beer that's when the starter gets important.
I am sure there is some economic ration of #yeast cells/dollar that still makes a good enough beer that people come back for more. Could they double the amount of yeast in these vials and packs? Sure, but you know what that yeast would have been dormant anyway, and you'd STILL want a starter to wake it up.
In fact, most starters don't really increase the cell count significantly, but they do up the viability (live #s) of the cells in the culture. If you do what Thirsty is doing you get more cells. Howeve,r pitching a full vial of White Labs into 1L, even 2L, you don't some sort of doubling of growth. Thirsty could just as well pithc 4 vials into a gallon of wort in a bucket, let it go for 8-10hours and get very similar results.
We need to keep these things in perspective.
Maybe 1n1m3g will chime in he really is a better yeast guy than me. I do a lot of cell culture work and microbiology, but I don't work with yeast.