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Double Rye P.A.
Hey, I'm trying a pilot brew, modifying a Mr. Beer West Coast Pale Ale kit I have. I'm starting brewing half batches because its easier for me to get a full boil, and the space for necessary equipment is more adequate. The recipe is unfinished and I'm looking for some suggestions.
MALTS
19 Oz Mr. Beer Hopped West Coast Pale Ale LME
1 lb Flaked Rye Grain
3.3 lb Bierkeller Premium German Unhopped LME (3 Years Old, not bulging)???
HOPS
(undecided)
YEAST
1 Vial White Labs California Ale Yeast
ADJUNCTS
(undecided)
So I'm imagining I need a few more pounds of malt to amp up the ABV to the 10+% I'm looking for, also I'm unsure about trying my luck with the mystery aged can of LME. It's been sitting in my garage chilled for at least 3 years. Also I'm not really sure of what hops to use, and how much and when. I'm primarily interested in using whole leaf hops, as I live in Yakima, WA, Hop Capitol of America, and I know I want to dry hop. I'm hoping to get some Apollo hops from a friend, who said they have a crazy high alpha acid rate, and can bitter a beer up to 60 IBUs with just a few ounces. I'm a major hop head, but hop spiciness/zest is preferred over straight bitterness. I'm debating using the bag of Booster sugar that came with the kit, I'm leaning towards not.
So, any suggestions on:
Malts (Extract or Grain, which types?)
Hops (Pelletized, Plug or Whole? Boil, Finish, Dry? Types?)
Adjuncts (I like a somewhat cloudy IPA, any adjuncts I should need otherwise?)
Yeast (Is one vial of a high alcohol tolerance yeast enough for 2 gallons of IIPA?)
Thank you very much for your time.
C.S. Roberts
Trouble Brewing Co.
Okay, so I was at the store and in a pinch because today is my only day to brew and I already pulled the vial out of the fridge this morning, so I borrowed parts of dmofot's Damn Devil Double IPA.
Of course improvising due to available ingredients and my 2 gallon version, it is as such so far.
(I also decided to play it safe and ditch my can of old LME, as it is slightly bulging on top, as well as another can of Munton's Amber LME, and 2 lbs of Munton's Plain Light DME which is a few years old but should be fine)
MALTS
19 oz Mr. Beer Hopped West Coast Pale Ale LME
1 lb Flaked Rye Grain
3.3 lbs Munton's Extra Light LME
2 lbs Munton's Plain Light DME
1 lb Briess Weisen DME
1 lb Briess 20L Crystal Malt 6 Row Grain (rolling pin milled, steeped)
1 lb Domestic Honey Malt 25L Grain (rolling pin milled, steeped)
HOPS
2 oz Domestic Cascade 2007 Loose Raw Whole Hops
1 oz Simcoe Pellet Hops
2 oz Domestic Amarillo 2007 Pellet Hops
1 oz Apollo Whole Hops (dry hopped)
YEAST
1 Vial White Labs California Ale Yeast
ADJUNCTS
(undecided)
Are you sure this is only for a 2 gallon batch? Or was that a typo? I plugged it in Beersmith and got a whopping 1.159 OG for a 2 gallon batch. Even for a 2 gallon batch you'd need 2 vials of yeast for a gravity that high. For a batch this small, I'd cut back on some of the malt extract as well as some of the grains you're using. I think with the recipe as is the beer is going to finish with a very high final gravity (around 1.033 and that's assuming you get the specified attenuation for that yeast) and be cloyingly sweet.
Glad to see you tossed the old malt extract. It's not worth it trying to use old ingredients to save a couple bucks.
What's your hopping schedule?
Well I seem to have ended up with a 1.11-1.12 OG after brewing. I am considering pitching in another vial of yeast after this one does its thing. I included some yeast nutrient as well.
And yes, it is a 2.5 gallon batch.
As for hopping, I winged it, bagging up the Cascades and boiling them for the whole hour, and then putting in the Amarillo and Simcoe in just before I pulled it off of the heat for 20-30 mins.
Now I plan to find some Apollo hops and probably some others and dry hop the holy hell out of it as soon as it permits me to. I will also be transferring this to a secondary fermenter.
Let's us know how this beer works out for ya. I'd be interested to know how far it ferments out.
Where do you plan on getting the Apollo hops? I've only ever heard of them once (at Brewchez's Brew-Dudes website) and I've never seen them for sale.
I work at a local Bottleshop here in Yakima, WA (we produce 75% of the US hop crop) and a customer knows somebody that works at S.S. Steiner, a hop warehouse. He told me that he was given over a pound of Apollo whole hops to try out, and give some feedback on them. Apparently they've been out for 8 years but haven't seen much commercial sale. He told me I was welcome to some if I wanted to brew. So I work on Thursday and hopefully I'll see him, or I'll leave a message for him. My mom is also friends with one of the largest hop field owners in the county and I unfortunately sat on a few pounds of a unreleased prototype hop a few years back and let them go bad. So one way or another, I'm getting me some hops.
BTW, I just checked in on the batch, it has a good layer of foam across the top, to which I am relieved, as I had the vial out on the counter for over the 3-6 hours.
As for pitching another vial, would it be okay for me to mix up a starter, uncap the batch, pitch it in, and stir it in gently with a sterilized spoon? This is my second batch ever, and I'd really like to make sure it ferments out well. My first batch was with a bunch of free DME that was over 10 years old, and it of course, did not turn out well.
Thanks for your input.
CS:
Holy Crap man. To many fermentables...
And one pound of flaked rye steeped in 2.5 gallons is going to be starch city. You should have added a little 2row and mini mashed the rye.
Have you looked into some of the online calculators available to help with prediciting OGs?
Try looking up sites like TastyBrew, BeerTools or Recipator. These sites have free online available calculators to help with grain bills and hopping schedules.
And don't worry about ABV as a recipe factor. Just make good beer first and drink more of it or vodka to get hammered.
Good luck with the brew, I hope it turns out good for you.
I would suggest pitching at least 2 more vials of yeast.
Trouble Brewing wrote:
As for pitching another vial, would it be okay for me to mix up a starter, uncap the batch, pitch it in, and stir it in gently with a sterilized spoon? This is my second batch ever, and I'd really like to make sure it ferments out well. My first batch was with a bunch of free DME that was over 10 years old, and it of course, did not turn out well.
Thanks for your input.
CS:
I would most certainly do that. If you are in the first few days of fermentation I wouldn't hesitate at all to stir it up good and get more O2 in there. The starting gravity is so high that you'll need as much healthy yeast as possible.
Good move on dumping the old extract.
At more than one more vial for a 2.5 gallon batch, wouldn't I run the risk of overpitching? Dmofot put in two helpings of yeast for about the same OG for a 5 gallon. Since I'm at half size, putting in a 5 gallon amount of high alcohol tolerance yeast, couldn't too much yeast risk overpitching? Just curious.
Also, at this much OG, should I even need to prime before bottling? Heh.
And on an even further note, how long should I leave this in the primary fermenter? And should I need to move it to a secondary? Or should I just bottle it fairly quickly as per usual ales?
CS:
Trouble Brewing wrote:
I work at a local Bottleshop here in Yakima, WA (we produce 75% of the US hop crop) and a customer knows somebody that works at S.S. Steiner, a hop warehouse. He told me that he was given over a pound of Apollo whole hops to try out, and give some feedback on them. Apparently they've been out for 8 years but haven't seen much commercial sale. He told me I was welcome to some if I wanted to brew. So I work on Thursday and hopefully I'll see him, or I'll leave a message for him. My mom is also friends with one of the largest hop field owners in the county and I unfortunately sat on a few pounds of a unreleased prototype hop a few years back and let them go bad. So one way or another, I'm getting me some hops.
Yeah, sucks to be you, huh? 
Trouble Brewing wrote:
At more than one more vial for a 2.5 gallon batch, wouldn't I run the risk of overpitching? Dmofot put in two helpings of yeast for about the same OG for a 5 gallon. Since I'm at half size, putting in a 5 gallon amount of high alcohol tolerance yeast, couldn't too much yeast risk overpitching? Just curious.
With an OG that high you are far from overpitching. Plus its pretty hard to overpitch on the homebrew level. Check out http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html for a pitching rate calculator.
Trouble Brewing wrote:
At more than one more vial for a 2.5 gallon batch, wouldn't I run the risk of overpitching? Dmofot put in two helpings of yeast for about the same OG for a 5 gallon. Since I'm at half size, putting in a 5 gallon amount of high alcohol tolerance yeast, couldn't too much yeast risk overpitching? Just curious.
Also, at this much OG, should I even need to prime before bottling? Heh.
And on an even further note, how long should I leave this in the primary fermenter? And should I need to move it to a secondary? Or should I just bottle it fairly quickly as per usual ales?
CS:
Overpitching shouldn't be a problem, and yes you still need to prime before you bottle. As far as how long you should leave it in the primary, I guess it depends on how long it takes to ferment out. But I'd pesonally leave it in there for about a month or so. With higher gravity beers I usually find that it takes about that long to finish fermenting. Finally, if you plan on dry hopping I'd use a secondary. I've got an IPA dry hopping right now and that's how I normally do it, in the secondary. Just my $.02.
Yes, it would seem I need to put quite a bit more yeast as bubbling has already subsided to a still clear surface. I'm going to get two more vials of liquid yeast and pitch them today. Dang.
Thanks
Okay, vigorously aerated the wort (sanitized electric mixer), pitched the two vials of yeast and stirred them in. Placed fermenter on heating pad (which, set on low, warms it to about 70-73 degrees, which is perfect) and went to work. Hoping for the best.
Okay, I foolishly left the heating pad on and it heated the wort up to 91 degrees.
Is this batch a lost cause or can I still put more yeast in?
91 degrees won't kill the yeast but it probably won't taste like it should. Just call it a farmer ale.
If you add any more ueast you might end up with beer flavored yeast.
DC
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