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Opinions on an oatmeal stout recipe.
My club is having an internal compitetion at the end of October. The style that we're going with is an oatmeal stout. I don't do these very often, so I was hoping you guys could take a look at what I came up with and let me know what you think of the recipe.
Expected OG: 1.055
Expected FG: 1.013
Color: 29 SRM
IBUs: 30.3
8 lbs. American 2-row
.5 lbs. American Caramel 60°L
1 lbs. American Chocolate Malt
.5 lbs. Roasted Barley
.5 lbs. Cara-Pils
1 lbs. Oats Flaked
.5 lbs. Lactose
1 oz. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
1 oz. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 20 min.
Yeast : White Labs WLP004 Irish Stout
Also, would it be a good idea to throw in some rice hulls because of the oatmeal? I've got .5 left over from another batch.
Overall it doesn't look too bad.
Just my 2 cents, but I'd ditch the lactose. I find that the Irish Ale strains leaves a creamy mouthfeel on their own and the oats will contribute to that as well. My OS actually got bashed by a judge one time for using lactose when I didn't even add any.
I also like a little Black Patent in my stouts and porters for that sharp roasty bite but that's just me. And I like the 20min EKG addition. Some people insist that you only need a bittering addition with stouts and porters but I like a little hop presence in mine.
I agree w/ FPB about the lactose, you want to get a small amount of sweetness from the oats, not from the lactose. Also I would switch out the carapils with some wheat, light or dark. FPB also made a great suggestion with the BP, but if you do not want to go with such a harsh bite, de-husked carafa III is a great option. Brewchez makes a mean OS, and I copied his recipe last summer with the carafa III interchanged for BP, at his suggestion, and I thought it was a great balance of sharo- but not too sharp roastiness.
Last suggestion is perhaps using a British 2 row, like Marris Otter for the base malt, it delivers a bit more richness and bready/biscuity toasts to the table, making a bit more complexity.
Again all suggestions- your recipe right now looks delicious.
thirsty wrote:
Last suggestion is perhaps using a British 2 row, like Marris Otter for the base malt, it delivers a bit more richness and bready/biscuity toasts to the table, making a bit more complexity.
Can't believe I over looked that. I'll second the suggestion for the Marris Otter. English Pale Ale malt will work good too.
I'll echo the sentiments here only because I love Oatmeal Stout (thanks Thirsty for the plug).
Sweetness.... yeah so here's my take.
I like to layer in crystal 80 and 120L. I'd recommend you use the 60L like you have but use some 120L, like 3 oz. Lactose isn't really all that sweet IMO. Especially, at 0.5 lb. I really believe that when people think of lactose as being sweet its actually a trick of the palate when balances of some black patent or dark roasted malt, usually in a Sweet Stout. If you drop some into a normal pale to amber beer, its just not sweet at all.
You do need to use some english base malt. The thing with oats is that they are relatively, tasteless. They are in there for mouthfeel. But most people still think oats have flavor...they don't. So you do need some english base malt to help carry the expectations of oat flavor that people will have when drining an Oat Stout. (Just to be fair, I struggled with this for years, then I realized that I always add milk and sugar and cinnamon to my morning oatmeal to make it taste better. Then I listened to Jamil Z talk about the same issue with oats on his show once.)
Lastly, choice of yeast will help with residual sweetness. I like WLP002 or S-04. Oatmeal Stout is traditionally an Enlgish style. A lot of people like to default to Irish Ale yeast because its a stout... I recently brewed a batch with Irish, and its nice and maltly. But it doesn't have the fruity sweetness that would come out subtley with an English strain. However, You could balance that with some more crystal malt layer...I am still experimentint with that.
Mash temp: Many people start to mash in higher thinking they want more body in a O stout. I find that keeping the mash temp at 152-154 (but really 152). Helps the Oatmeal smoothness not get lost in the bigger body contributed from the base malts at a mash temp of like 156F. Think about how much mash temp can effect 1lb of oatmeal competing against 10# of base malt for residual dextrins and body!
Best of luck keep us posted.
Oh yeah, dude, rice hulls for sure.
Thanks for the advice guys. Here's the revised recpie:
Expected O.G.: 1.055
Expected F.G.: 1.013
Color: 33 SRM
IBUs: 30.3
8 lbs. Maris Otter Pale
.5 lbs. American Caramel 60°L
1 lbs. American Chocolate Malt
.5 lbs. Roasted Barley
.5 lbs. White Wheat Malt
.25 lbs. Weyermann Carafa III®
.25 lbs. American Caramel 120°L
1 lbs. Oats Flaked
.5lbs Rice Hulls
1 oz. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
1 oz. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 20 min.
Yeast : White Labs WLP002 English Ale
Honestly, not listing an English pale malt the first time was a mistake on my part. Originaly I was planning to use it, but for some reason clicked on American two row instead. I like the idea of trying out the Marris Otter though. I've never used it before, so I'm excited to see the results. That's assuming that I can acutally get it from my LHBS.
The only subs that I might have to do would be English Pale Malt for the Marris Otter and BP for the Carafa III. My LHBS may not have them in stock, and I get a 10% discount on these ingredients if I buy them from him. The guy who owns the shop is sponsoring the comp and is a member of the club.
I was planning on mashing at 152F from the start. Thanks for confirming that I was going the right way with that brewchez.
So how does the revision look to you guys?
Thanks again for the suggestions, I'll keep you guys posted
I think it looks pretty good. I'd go with the black patent but that's just me. When I use rice hulls I like to rinse and hydrate them with hot water before adding them to the mash that way they're clean and won't absorb any wort. Not really a big deal but just something I do.
Looks good.
Id dump the wheat. I used to put a half pound in mine, but I don't think it really helped with much.
You can still try it.
I second the comment of rinsing out the rice hulls before you use them. They tend to get pretty dusty in shipping and packaging. SO toss them into a colander and rinse them good, them put them into the heated mash water before you add the grains and you are off to the races.
Good idea with hydrating the rice rulls first. I'll definately give that one a go. I came up a half a gallon short with the American Rye that I originaly bought them for, and I was positive that the hulls were the culprit.
I guess I'll wait for Thirsty to weigh in, but that's probably the recipe that I'll go with as long as I can get all the grains that I want.
BP has a good chance of making it's way into the grain bill if the LHBS doesn't have it, but I'd rather try out the Carafa III. I want the roastiness, but I'd like to try and avoid the bite that you can get with BP.
The wheat I kinda thought would help out with head retention. That's why I threw the Cara-Pils in in the first place. From my understanding the oils in oats kill your beer's head, so I'm thinking that a little wheat will help it out a bit as per Thirsty's suggestion. The BJCP guidelines say: "Thick, creamy, persistent tan- to brown-colored head." http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style13.php#1c. I know you said it didn't help much brewchez, but I'll probably keep it in there anyway just to cover my ass.
Thanks.
Mortician607 wrote:
The wheat I kinda thought would help out with head retention. That's why I threw the Cara-Pils in in the first place..
That is exactly why I like to include it. It may not be necessary, but I do not think it would detract anything, and serve its purpose. I actually put a # into my dubbel recipe for the same reasons, when you need that head but do not want any residual sweetness, wheat offers a good comprimise. However when it comes to OS brewchez is the MFer and his is pounded down to world class, so I can only offer suggestions, he probably boils crack in his- its that good.
thirsty wrote:
Mortician607 wrote:
The wheat I kinda thought would help out with head retention. That's why I threw the Cara-Pils in in the first place..
That is exactly why I like to include it. It may not be necessary, but I do not think it would detract anything, and serve its purpose. I actually put a # into my dubbel recipe for the same reasons, when you need that head but do not want any residual sweetness, wheat offers a good comprimise. However when it comes to OS brewchez is the MFer and his is pounded down to world class, so I can only offer suggestions, he probably boils crack in his- its that good.
Oh yeah I forgot to mention the crack. I use 2 oz crack, toasted in the oven at 350F for 10 minutes. Nice chocolatey crack flavor.
Yeah you know the wheat is 50/50. I still waver on it for head retention. Right now I think I make a tasty tasty oatmeal stout, I'll probably start playing more with wheat, torrified wheat, cara-pils and or different mashing regimes to try and improve head stability.
In threory there should be plenty head retention proteins in the recipe without additional grist adjustments. I think I want to explore my process a little more. As a shift in process to imprive head retention in the O.Stout, will certainly improve head in all my beers right????
Thanks for the nod Thirsty, I do love the Oatmeal Stout. OS was the second style I ever brewed and I keep brewing it with close to the same recipe every time. I took a little break from OS for a couple years, just to get away and come back to it with a fresh mind. The recipe I shared with you certainly was great. I waver between that one and my present one. We'll have to compare the notes between the two next time we all get together.
I love Oatmeal Stout. Did I mention my dog's name is Stout. He is all black with a white tan belly, sort of like a guiness upside down. I don't know what I'll name another dog if he's black though...I haven't gotten into porter enough yet to name a dog porter.... Although that may change with the Brown Porter I have planned to brew next week.
I finally got the ingredients to brew this up. I was hoping to get it done yesterday, but the LHBS was out of the RB and the yeast that I wanted. He got them in yesterday, but by then it was too late to get a starter going to brew it. So the brewday has been pushed back to Wenesday.
I make a s weet stout quite often and it always came out a little on the dry side rather than sweet. I used Irish ale smak pak last batch and it makes a huge difference. Great mouthfeel and sweetness. I also always include wheat malt in the stout for head retention. Never hurts.
DC
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