Attention: Check out the new BKB Home Brewing Blog
Pages: 1 2
Raspberry Lambic
Tikker wrote:
Do you have an opinion as to which would be better (glass or plastic) to accomplish getting to a Lindemans Lambic Framboise "clone"?
Look up four posts in this thread. It's only my opinion, but I don't think Lindeman's is real representative of the lambic style, unless we're talking about their Cuvee Renee (which is actually a gueze lambic). Lindeman's fruit lambics don't really give the funky sour flavors that lambics are really known for, then again, a lot of lambics have taken this route.
If I was doing a Lindeman's Framboise clone, I doubt I would even venture to use any wild yeast or bacteria for the purpose of souring. I'd probably brew up a nice wheat beer and use some acidulated malt for a slight sour kick and then lay that down on some raspberries for a little bit. This would knock about 6 months off the aging process and eliminate the need for extra equipment to store the beer, since you aren't working with souring yeast/bacteria. I'd probably also just use a Belgian yeast, maybe a Wit strain. I can't imagine there's a need to use a highly attenuating yeast strain, since they sweeten their final product anyway using unfermentable sugars.
But I digress...to directly answer your question, glass would be a better choice to accomplish a Lindeman's Framboise clone. While you are aging it for 6 months, try and find a Cantillon or Boon and taste some true lambic flavors.
Tikker wrote:
Some say it isn't in the true Lambic style...
Taken from the BJCP page: http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style17.html#1f
"Any overly sweet lambics (e.g., Lindemans or Belle Vue clones) would do better entered in the 16E Belgian Specialty category since this category does not describe beers with that character."
My palet isn't very refined.
My "standard" brews are a nice malty amber ale, a clone of Anchor steam beer, and as of late I've even started drinking a very light ale I originally brewed for my "not so much a beer lover", friends.
I do enjoy Lindemans Lambic Framboise, I tend to go for stronger flavors which is probably why that one sparks my interest, even though it is in my opinion, on the sweet side.
So back to my concern, the raspberry concentrate is spendy, I hate to use it in a brew that will take 6 months before I can sample if I would be better off to do a raspberry wheat beer and get close to the Lindemans Lambic in question. I am a patient person so if my current process will get me where I want ,I'll stay with it.
I've been brewing for about 5 years, I'm on batch #48, and been doing AG for the last 4+ years, I'm not much into the science of it all, I just stick to what has worked for me so doing this Lambic thing is an experiment albeit a costly one.
I don't know, I mean it's really up to you how much experimentation you want to do. If you are shooting to do a real lambic, you'll want to use the lambic blended strains, which has a few impacts:
* separate equipment - while you can get away with using glass on both regular and sour beers, anything plastic should be dedicated to either regular or sour to prevent cross contamination. I'm not saying it's impossible to use plastic for both and not get an infection, but you run a much higher risk.
* time to age - in order for the lambic flavors to really come across in the beer, you'll need to age for probably 6 months. Obviously each batch will be different, but most commercial lambics are aged between 1-3 years. Also, the flavors imparted by this aging may or may not be what you are looking for. Most commercial lambics these days are blended, which means multiple batches are needed for the blending.
Again, it's just my personal opinion, but I wouldn't go through all the trouble of making a true lambic if all I was looking to do was clone Lindemans Framboise. But, if you are in it for the experience of brewing a lambic, then by all means go all out. From your own description, I'd probably try and pick up a bottle of a true lambic to see if you even enjoy it before embarking on brewing it. People usually either really like true lambics or they aren't big fans. It would be a shame to spend 6+ months brewing a lambic, only to get there and figure out you don't enjoy them and have wasted a bunch of money.
I'll go out on a limb from how you described yourself as a drinker and say you probably specifically like Lindemans Framboise for the over the top raspberry flavor and the almost too sweet sweetness. Neither of these aspects reflects the lambic style. Knowing that, I think I'd purchase a bottle of lambic and try that before you brew, then decide, because you're the one who's going to have to drink it...
If it was me, I'd brew up a real lambic...funky, sour, and unblended with a touch of slap you in the mouth acidity and just enough raspberry flavor remaining when the sourness passes. But that's probably why I'm not brewing your beer, ha.
You might try brewing a wheat beer and simply adding one small container of raspberry extract. The wheat beer you can brew, ferment and be done with in just a couple of weeks and the raspberry extract is cheap compared to the cost of the puree. This would at least give you an idea of what you are up against and at less than a month from brewing to liver, you won't be far behind if you do decide to go all out lambic style.
Have I gone on enough to make you thirsty, ha? I know I am!
EDIT: Hell, you might even just pick up a 6 pack of Blue Moon and add a few drops of raspberry extract into that to see if you like it. That's what I did to see if I liked certain fruit extracts, bought a couple of different ones, then did a beer with each to see which I preferred.
DT
dmofot,
You pegged me spot on.......I guess my self description worked, that's what I was hopeing.
I do appreciate the info and interest.
I'll take your advice and try true lambic, it makes good sense to me since most info I've found trumpets what you have shared on your opinion of Lindemans Framboise.
So I already have the wheat in primary, continuing to ferment, could I add the raspbery flavor to that in secondary and proceed as usual? (I have the 4 oz. flavoring in the refer, already)
Or would using the raspberry seedless puree in secondary get me there, too? Would the puree re-energize fermentation?
Two different beasts, the extract versus the puree. The extract is added to the beer just before bottling/kegging (after fermentation and secondary). Put the batch into a bottling bucket, add some of the extract, give it a little swirl, and then taste it to see if it's enough. I have a feeling with the raspberry that you'll probably end up using the whole 4 ounces and if that's the case you can just dump it in.
Now with the puree, you'll want to pour the puree into your secondary and then rack the beer from primary on top of the puree. The sugars from the puree should kick off another mini fermentation, but it might be small enough that you don't really see it. Either way, you'll probably want to keep the beer on the puree for a week or so.
I don't know if you already have the puree or not, but you could always rack the wheat beer on top of the puree in secondary, then taste it before bottling/kegging and see if you would prefer more raspberry flavor. At that point you could add some of the raspberry extract if you felt it needed more flavor. But again, the puree is going to be more expensive.
I've used raspberry extract before (the whole 4 ounces) and it worked really well in a wheat beer. But I was going more for a Blue Moon-esque raspberry beer than a Lindeman's Framboise. I don't have any experience using the raspberry puree, as the only real fruit I've used was strawberries and cherries and neither was bought as puree.
Good luck! I'm sure which ever way you go will turn out a nice raspberry beer.
DT
Pages: 1 2