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What will this malt bill taste like?
I want to brew a Christmas Robust Porter. I want a SRM of 30 and an IBU of 50 with a 5%ABV,
I was experimenting with Robust Porter recipes and imputing them into www.beertools.com. I found one that meets all specifications that I want, except I have no idea what this will taste like. Can you give me an Idea?
Boil Volume: 3.5gal
Batch size: 3gal
Wyeast 1099 : Whitbread Ale
3lbs Euro Pils, Crips
2Lbs Toasted Pale Malt
1lb Belgian Pale
.5lbs of black, crisp
Simcoe 1oz :: .33 each @ 45 - 30 - 10
There are other additives that I know the flavor profile of. I will post the recipe exactly when I brew this in October or early November.
You seem to a bit all over with this recipe. If you havent done a good base robust porter yet, I would say keep a real simple recipe, and go from there, I am assuming you will be spicing it some?
I would think a pale malt only base, or perhaps marris otter or golden promise, with just a hint of sweetness from some caramel malt, and back the black down to .25#. It is strong stuff, and a 3 gallon batch is small for the amount you listed. The mix of pilsner also dosnt really make any contribution. I would think try playing with something like a basic Jamil recipe:
6# marris otter
.75# crystal 40
.5# chocolate
.25# black patent
(maybe a .25# of special B, my persoanal favorite)
Just throwing out numbers, you may want to load those into a calculator and see where they turn out.
The whitbread yeast is fine, however the simcoe may not be to your liking in this one. It has a very pungent piney character that is great in IPAs, but I personally would not use it in a porter where the malt is the star. I would use soft and subtle like 30 IBUs of kent goldings.
All just suggestions, but this should get you towards a nice balanced porter.
Robust Porter needs a little more dimension than your malt bill. Your malt bill seems like it will taste a little acrid and black. Thirsty's suggestions are good especially with a little of the chocolate malt in there.
I too agree with something like EKG. I'd recommend on addition at 60 minutes. Then from there the Porter aroma and flavor will stand out.
Toasted malt and black malt will as the only specialty malts will be a little one dimensional and thin I think. The black malt will probably dominate the toasted malt too.
I haven't done too much research on malts flavor yet, I will before I come up with a final recipe. I just had a color, IBU, and ABV in mind. This combo got me those things.
I picked those hops specifically for the piney flavor and aroma. Its a Xmas dark ale, so that's one of the flavors I want to shine. Along with peppermint and ginger.
I'll do some more research on malt flavors and I'll run another malt bill by you guys.
that much black malt will kill the beer. halve it as mentioned. Thirstys post is the way to go.
DC
I am doing a lot of malt flavor and color research today. Thank you so much for the help! I am too new to this to know the combination of flavors but yet too stubborn, creative and rebellious to follow a recipe to the letter.
BTW, Thirsty's recipe got me the desired color, bitterness, and alcohol.
As of right now I am leaning towards this recipie, and i will explain why after.
6# Marris Otter
.75# American crystal 40L
.5# Carafa Special (dehusked)
.25# Black Patent
I like the nutty characteristics of the Marris Otter so I am using that as a base. I dont want a sweet caramel flavor, so the 40L will be a nice subtle note i think. I dont like the harshness of chocolate malt, so this Carafa Special is said to be a very smooth, mellow substitute for chocolate malt. It comes in 3 types with increasing L. I am not sure yet if the increased L will effect flavor, if not, I will use the darkest one. I did more research on black Patent and you were all right, .5# was way to much. I am also curious; will this malt give me the smoke flavor some beers have. The flavor that chokes you as you swallow like you inhaled cigarette smoke? I HATE that flavor so I hope not.
Update....
I was planning on doing this in about a month, but its a porter so it needs long to age then other lighter beers and I want it to be ready for Xmas eve and day. So I am doing it this week! I am excited. This will be my 1st non extract beer brew by my self.
I took Thirsty's advice and went with a similar malt bill. This is what I am going to use.
Wyeast 1099 : Whitbread Ale
6lbs Marris Otter
.75lbs American crystal 40L
.5lbs Carafa Special (dehusked)
.25lbs Black Patent
I just bought a 4gallon pot so I can make this a 3 gallon batch.
Estimations:
Boil Volume: 3.5gal
Batch size: 3gal
OG: 1.053
FG: 1.013
Color: 31.13 SRM
Bitterness: 48.6 IBU
ABV: 5.3%
Desired Flavors:
Pine flavor and aroma.
Ginger flavor.
Slight Mint flavor.
Mild Honey Sweetness.
I am going to use 1oz of Simcoe hops to get the "pine" flavor and aroma. .33oz at 45, 30, and 10 mins.
In the secondary I will add:
1 tablespoon of Allspice
2oz Ginger
1oz of possibly Wintergreen or another Mint I can find.
2 tablespoons of Honey
I am going to keep in primary for 10-14 days, then secondary for 14-21 days and Prime till Dec 24th when I taste it.
Simcoe again would not be my choice for a porter, but good for you to sticking to your laurels and having sound reasoning for why you want to use it. With that being said though, I think 46 IBUs is way too much for this beer. If you want piny, think less early addition, maybe 30 IBUs, and a couple of later additions for your flavor and aroma. That will give you a more balanced porter, and a more malt forward beer which this should be.
You seem to have a lot of flavors here. So my other suggestion would be to keep them subtle, so they are not fighting eachother. You do not want mouthwash. I use 1 oz of fresh Ginger in a 12 gallon batch, and it is quite noticeable. Twice as much in a third of the volume may give you some HUGE intensity. I would also think about cutting your allspice at least in half as well. That is a big spice. I always like using high quality whole berry/seed spices, and just lightly crack them. That produces the freshest flavor.
All just suggestions. There is a lot happening for a 1.053 beer. Remember most Xmas beers are enjoyed sipping and savoring. Complexity is best served subtly. My $.02
Just realized as I made that last post I am sipping a 2'year old oaked RIS that is warming nicely. Probably my inspiration for the subtlety comments!! I might just enter this into the brews and blues next weekend!
I will keep that in mind and make those changes on the spices. I have never worked with them, so I have no experience with them. I will take your word for it and tone them down.
I agree on the simcoe.
I just pitched the yeast today! 
I had to make an audible at the homebrew store last night and get Chinook hops because Simcoe isn't sold at my local store. Other then that, the recipe I last posted was followed. It looks and smells fantastic! I am officially an all grain brewer now! I wont try this officially till Christmas Eve or Day. Thank you all for your help and input!
Oh darn. Now you have to brew something to drink from now until Christmas.
I did a lot of interesting things with this brew. I'll let you all know how it turns out. I have high hopes. I dry hoped 2 of the 3 gallons with .5oz fuggles and .5oz goldings. I tasted all three gallons individually before I missed them all together. I could not taste the difference between the two types of dry hops, but there was a distinct difference between dry hoped and non. The malt was a lot more predominant in the non. The Chinook hops I used made the taste I was looking for, not 100% the smell, I might you SImcoe next year. The malt taste is very good. Very complex and I liked it! I accidentally burnt some grains at the bottom of the pot while I was mashing, so there is a slight burnt/smoked character. I am not thrilled about that, but it did add lots of depth. I added the spices after a random number of days of primary. I decided to use a much smaller amount of each and only keep them in the secondary for one week. Today I am racking the beer off the secondary yeast and spices and doing a 3rd age. I added 2 tablespoons of honey to the secondary, so that's why there was another yeast production. I am going to keep the beer in the 3rd age for at least another week and then bottle till Xmas. I will let you know how dominant the spices are when I taste at bottling.
MadScientistMike wrote:
I dry hoped 2 of the 3 gallons with .5oz fuggles and .5oz goldings. I could not taste the difference between the two types of dry hops
The Chinook hops I used made the taste I was looking for, not 100% the smell, I might you SImcoe next year. .
All to be expected. East Kent Goldings and fuggles are cousins of eachother and produce a similar aroma, floral and earthy. If you used chinook for bittering, it would not contribute any aromas. Although strong in alpha acids, after it has boiled for 30-40 minutes, all of the flavor and aroma will be driven out, and only the bitter characteristics will remain. If you replace it with simcoe next batch, your results may be identical, although chinook is heralded for its sharp and harsh bittering, simcoe is not too far behind.
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