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Some of Denny Conn's experiments and techniques
I put this here to be used somewhat as a reference from time to time for new brewers who have sparge questions, but he does a couple of neat experiments further down the PP page. He posted this link on another forum, but I don't think he would mind sharing the knowledge.
http://www.ahaconference.org/presentati … nyConn.pdf
I like the conclusions, basically in my eyes if you are using well modified malt, decoction is a waste of time. And FWHing to me is a smoother bitterness. I plan on doing this more.
thirsty:
Have you ever used FWH for your IPAs?
I like hoppy beers, but only to a certain extent.
I am begining to wonder if I'd get more enjoyment out of brewing normal strength IPAs with FWH.
BTW thanks for the link.
I have a couple of times, however I did both the FWHing and 60 min addition splitting the IBUs, so I cannot really determine the exact results.. I did notice the bitterness was smoother somewhat, it was more of a backdoor bitterness, malt first, then wait, wait, oh there it is kind of delayed bitterness. I will certainly try my next IPA with no 60 min additiona at all, just FWH, and flavor/aroma.
what exactly is fwhing?
I did FWH with my IPA earlier in the year...turned out awesome! WIll do this every time for that batch! Next year, it's getting refined and entered somewhere....
Hogarthe wrote:
what exactly is fwhing?
FWH = First Wort Hopping. Basically, you take hops, and put them in the kettle before you drain the mash tun. This gives a deeper hop flavor, and smoother bitterness as opposed to the standard 60 minute addtion. You can still add at 60, or whenever else. I usually have about 25-30% of IBUs coming from FWH...so whatever that amount measures out to... I use the calculator on Tastybrew to figure out IBUs, because it's free and has a place to add FWH in the schedule...
I've had mixed results with FWHing and don't really understand why. I've made a couple of killer pale ales but I've also had a handful of beers sort of fall flat when it comes to aroma and flavor. Maybe its time to start experimenting with it again.
thirsty wrote:
I have a couple of times, however I did both the FWHing and 60 min addition splitting the IBUs, so I cannot really determine the exact results.. I did notice the bitterness was smoother somewhat, it was more of a backdoor bitterness, malt first, then wait, wait, oh there it is kind of delayed bitterness. I will certainly try my next IPA with no 60 min additiona at all, just FWH, and flavor/aroma.
So you're putting your hops in ypur brew kettle and then adding the wort from the mash tun, then heating up to boil temp and boil?
DC
deafcone wrote:
So you're putting your hops in ypur brew kettle and then adding the wort from the mash tun, then heating up to boil temp and boil?
DC
Yep. You can do the same thing with extract brewing by diluting your extract in water, then adding the hops. Let is sit for little bit to get the same sort of quasi time exposure as we do when draining a mash tun. Then start heating to boil.
It should be restated that Denny's data suggests that there isn't much true perceived difference with the technique. Which might be why FPB feels it has sort of fallen flat for him a couple times.
I too believe that its mostly arbitrary and subjective. I haven't tried it yet but it ingrigues me so that's why I asked Thirsty about it.
I guess I don't see what the difference is between FWHing and the standard 60 min addition. I mean the hops are still in there for the whole boil, right? I guess you just allow more time to convert to iso-alpha acids, but all of the oils that impart aroma and flavor would still be boiled away. My understanding is that he cohumulone levels in hops are what contribute to the overall hop harshness of a beer. This is why low cohumulone hops have been bred and developed. Maybe I'm missing something.
1n1m3g wrote:
, but all of the oils that impart aroma and flavor would still be boiled away. My understanding is that he cohumulone levels in hops are what contribute to the overall hop harshness of a beer. This is why low cohumulone hops have been bred and developed. Maybe I'm missing something.
This is the way I understand it- but the key is not ALL the oils get boiled away. The optimal temperature for hot wort to strip the volatile oils is 140-160, because of that, there is much, much more oils present before the boil even happens. Yes they are volatile and a lot will boil off, the hope is that what is left behind is still contributing, and at a higher level.
That is why the argument is there for a hopback or "whirlpool" additions like we talked about before.
thirsty wrote:
1n1m3g wrote:
, but all of the oils that impart aroma and flavor would still be boiled away. My understanding is that he cohumulone levels in hops are what contribute to the overall hop harshness of a beer. This is why low cohumulone hops have been bred and developed. Maybe I'm missing something.
This is the way I understand it- but the key is not ALL the oils get boiled away. The optimal temperature for hot wort to strip the volatile oils is 140-160, because of that, there is much, much more oils present before the boil even happens. Yes they are volatile and a lot will boil off, the hope is that what is left behind is still contributing, and at a higher level.
That is why the argument is there for a hopback or "whirlpool" additions like we talked about before.
Seems like with bringing the temp up and once you get to the 140 to 160 temp range you are releasing more oils before the boil actually starts and maybe that allows the oils more time to blend or whatever you want to call it into the wort before the temp gets high enough to boil them off and the blending imparts a better smootness in the bitterness of the beer in the end.
then again, what the hell do I know. I'm sitting here drinking a mack and jack while typing this and I'm perfectly happy with it.
So, here's a toast to brewingKB, may we always seek perfection, and never achieve it, so we can continue to strive for it!
DC
deafcone wrote:
So, here's a toast to brewingKB, may we always seek perfection, and never achieve it, so we can continue to strive for it!
DC
Prost!
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